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To: annalex; Kolokotronis; Forest Keeper
Hm. Convince me. Here's the problem. God did not create evil. There is no other creator. Evil therefore is absence of God, rather than a created substance

Kolo did not say that evil is a creature of God; evil is a state. If evil is absence of God, how does that make God ominpresent? Evil is a state of mind that rejects God. It is not something where God excluded Himself. It is an act of will, free will, whether it be demonic or human. If we cannot reject God, then our will is not free, as the Calvinsits claim (and therefore there can be no evil). But the Scriputre show clearly that we can reject God, thereby giving rise to evil.

Demons are said to howl outside of the monasteries on Mt Athos. And the Desert Fathers speak of them as very real.

There is no mention of the evil one in the Creed, annalex. There is no place for satan in our Creed! You are confusing the Lord's Prayer with the Creed. Yes, the Slavonic version says no izbavi nas ot lukavago (but rescue us from the deceiver). The deceiver is the name of the evil one. I am not sure what your point is.

3,347 posted on 03/07/2006 5:35:35 PM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50; annalex; Forest Keeper

" If evil is absence of God, how does that make God ominpresent? Evil is a state of mind that rejects God. It is not something where God excluded Himself. It is an act of will, free will, whether it be demonic or human. If we cannot reject God, then our will is not free, as the Calvinsits claim (and therefore there can be no evil). But the Scriputre show clearly that we can reject God, thereby giving rise to evil."

Exactly and precisely my point. Thanks, Kosta.

" Demons are said to howl outside of the monasteries on Mt Athos. And the Desert Fathers speak of them as very real."

The holy nuns at the monastery outside my maternal village say the very same thing. Holiness attracts demons.


3,349 posted on 03/07/2006 5:56:58 PM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: kosta50; Kolokotronis; Forest Keeper
I meant Our Father, of course. Sorry.

Evil is a state of mind that rejects God. It is not something where God excluded Himself. It is an act of will, free will, whether it be demonic or human.

Indeed. That it is. But how is it different from absence of light, if you recall that in order to create that absence a barrier to light must be erected?

We agree that Satan is "very real, tangible and substantial", and not mere absence of good. We should nevertheless steer clear of the manichean duality which would place evil/Satan on the same ontological level as good/God.

3,350 posted on 03/07/2006 6:13:08 PM PST by annalex
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To: kosta50; annalex; Kolokotronis
If evil is absence of God, how does that make God ominpresent? Evil is a state of mind that rejects God. It is not something where God excluded Himself. It is an act of will, free will, whether it be demonic or human. If we cannot reject God, then our will is not free, as the Calvinsits claim (and therefore there can be no evil). But the Scriputre show clearly that we can reject God, thereby giving rise to evil.

Being in the presence of evil does not equate to being a part of it. God and satan were close enough to have a conversation in the Bible. That doesn't challenge His omnipresence. satan was still in Heaven the moment before he was cast out. God was present, but not a part of it.

Calvinists fully believe that we can reject God. In fact, we're born to do it. :)

3,463 posted on 03/11/2006 8:41:26 PM PST by Forest Keeper
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