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To: annalex; Forest Keeper; Dr. Eckleburg; jo kus; Agrarian; kosta50
The Greek for "guided" or as you insist "ordained" is "euthunetai". It never appears as translation for King James's "ordained [by God]";

I don't use the King James. BTW-I'm a little confused by your post. Proverbs is Hebrew not Greek.

Pick a translation, I don't care...

It doesn't change the meaning. Your steps are guided by the Lord. The Douay-Rheims would like to soften this with guided. You'll find the D-R to be out of sinc with all translations, probably another error of the Latin Vulgate. The Hebrew states, "A man's steps are from the Lord..." Just so as to be absolutely correct, I've updated my tagline with the Hebrew translation.

Where is the sin of Adams ordained, Mr. Sola Scriptura?

Would you disagree with the Douay-Rheims version that the Lord did NOT guide Adam's steps? Want others???

BTW-I'm extremely flatter about my "Mr. Sola Scriptura" titled but I simply reading what God has spoken.
3,283 posted on 03/06/2006 10:29:53 AM PST by HarleyD ("A man's steps are from the Lord, How then can man understand his way?" Prov 20:24 (HNV))
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To: HarleyD
The Greek Septuagint is older that the known Hebrew. Douay translated it faithfully. The Hebrew meaning is not any closer to "ordained" than Septuagint. Septuagint is also what the Apostles read, knew, and quoted.

The meaning is not the same. While God guides our steps by revealing what His pleasure is, He does not ordain them in a mechanical Calvinist way.

I'd like to know where you get the idea that Adam's sin, described with great care in Genesis, was "ordained" by God. We sure know where Adam was guided, -- away from the Tree. Does God guide in one way and ordain the other?

The verses in Proverbs are not specific as to ordainment vs. guidance, nor do the latter ones apply to men universally: one is about kings, the other about chance.

3,287 posted on 03/06/2006 11:22:02 AM PST by annalex
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To: HarleyD; annalex; Forest Keeper; Dr. Eckleburg; jo kus; Agrarian; Kolokotronis
I don't use the King James. BTW-I'm a little confused by your post. Proverbs is Hebrew not Greek

The Old Testament used by the Apostles and early church (and Orthodox Church to this day) was Septuagint (LXX). It is a translation of the Hebrew original commissioned in the third century BC for Alexandrian Jews (who spoke only Greek, the way most American Jews speak only English, but not Hebrew). The oldest copy of any complete Old Testament is LXX (c. 2nd century BC). Since it was written before Christ, it is not tainted with Christian bias.

The Apostles' quotes from the Old Testament come from LXX. If it was good for them, it is good enough for us. In contrast, Luther knew better than the Apostles (why am i not surprized!). He changed from the predominantly LXX OT used by the Catholic Church to the Hebrew-language version known as the Mesoretic Text (MT), of which the oldest copy dates to 10th century AD, which is being used by the rabbinical Judaism.

Since this is the OT of the Rabbinical Judaism (post 70 AD), and in fact the text canonized for all practical purposes at Jamnia (100 AD), a rabbinical meeting that among other things rejected Christian texts (Gospels) and commanded all Jews to curse Jesus of Nazareth, it's neutrality is subject to suspicion because of the obvious anti-Christian bias.

The two versions differ in content, length and implied meaning of many verses.

3,303 posted on 03/06/2006 4:10:19 PM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: HarleyD; annalex; Forest Keeper; Dr. Eckleburg; jo kus; Agrarian; Kolokotronis
Would you disagree with the Douay-Rheims version that the Lord did NOT guide Adam's steps?

To do what? To sin? You simply keep reiterating what I have been saying about your Reformed theology all along: to you God is the author and cause of sin, although you and your kind vehemently deny it. God can only lead us to do good; never to sin. Yet your sentence clearly shows that you believe otherwise: God "ordained" Adam to fall and actively led him, step, by step, into sin (and Adam was unable to resist his own downfall).

But the Scripture says exactly the opposite. God guides Adam (and Eve) away from the tree. That is the extent of His ordination of Adam and Eve. But He also keeps the tree and even allows the serpant into the Garden. Why is that, HD?

He does that for the simple reason that, in order for man to have dominion on earth (in the image of God), he must be able to make decisions, and he must make them morally good (in the likeness of God). For a decision to be valid and morally right, the decision-maker must possess a free intellect (using God as the measure of goodness) to will and to act. Without the tree, Adam and Eve are indeed imbecils who can't decide or do anything. That's not how God created humans.

So, Adam and Eve make bad decisions, they are new at this, and what does God do? He comes to Adam in an non-threatening manner, humbling Himself and pretending he doesn't know where Adam is hiding, or what He did. He is doing that because He wants Adam to confess and repent. he is giving Adam a second chance, an opporutnity to redeem himself.

Instead, Adam commits sin again and blames God (shaking that fist at God syndrome) for giving him the woman who caused him to eat the forbidden fruit. And when God gives Eve a chance to confess (blame herself first), and repent, she blames it on the devil! Neither one will take the responsability for their poor choice (our fallen nature). And, Calvinsits seem to side with Adam by saying — God made him do it! Geeez!

3,306 posted on 03/06/2006 4:38:32 PM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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