Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: HarleyD
I would argue that the Church DID accept most of Augustine's teachings and most (not all) were canonized with the Council of Orange (2)

Brother, you have said this before - please give me some written proof. I don't see what you are talking about, and I have read the Council's various anathemas against Pelagius. Please show me what you are talking about.

The "revealed" belief of the Eucharist and Mary didn't happened for about six hundred years later.

That is simply not true. I can quite easily post St. Ignatius of Antioch on the Eucharist - about 107 AD, or St. Justin the Martyr (150 AD), St. Irenaesu (180 AD) and St. Tertullian (200 AD) on BOTH the real presence of the Eucharist, and Mary's special role as the New Eve, complimentary to the New Adam already found in the Scriptures for Christ. I will spare you the quotes, unless you demand to see them. I have in the past posted what the Latin Fathers thought about free will and so forth. There is really no proof for your assertions regarding the Eucharist, Mary, or the belief that man has no free will and God reprobates actively to hell.

Actually you'll find Calvinists are in full agreement that men are responsible for turning to God to be saved. It just that they can't turn to God until God sets them free.

Then we agree here - the Council of Trent has reaffirmed the Catholic belief that God FIRST comes to man for a man to even desire to come to God. You should be familiar with this, you have posted from Trent and this section before. One difference, though, is that St. Augustine and others clearly regard that men ARE secondary causes. This is where Calvinism departs from Christianity of the first millenium.

As Augustine noted in a Treatise on Predestination, he received his instruction from others in the Church. Augustine was not at odds with what the Church was teaching at the time. He was actually quite consistent with what was taught.

St. Ambrose didn't teach St. Augustine's version of predestination, nor did anyone else that I know of. Please educate me on who taught St. Augustine (if HE even taught it!) that God actively reprobates men to hell?

Regards

3,236 posted on 03/05/2006 1:08:18 PM PST by jo kus (I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing; therefore CHOOSE life - Deut 30:19)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3233 | View Replies ]


To: jo kus; HarleyD; Kolokotronis
The "revealed" belief of the Eucharist and Mary didn't happened for about six hundred years later (HD)

I can quite easily post St. Ignatius of Antioch on the Eucharist - about 107 AD, or St. Justin the Martyr (150 AD), St. Irenaesu (180 AD) and St. Tertullian (200 AD) on BOTH the real presence of the Eucharist, and Mary's special role as the New Eve, complimentary to the New Adam already found in the Scriptures for Christ (jo kus)

HD, jo is right on the button with this one. And Ignatius was a disicple of Apostle Peter, and was ordained bishop by the him. I am sure what he wrote was not something the Church did not already teach. You assertion about centures later is simply not true.

The Church never disagreed with either of the Fathers mentioned by jo kus. It merely asserted that she was Theotokos, the Birth-giver of God.

3,241 posted on 03/05/2006 4:12:41 PM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3236 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson