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To: Forest Keeper
So God only protected the first generation from error?

In a word, YES. :)

Where exactly does the Scripture even IMPLY that? This sounds like another man-made tradition that keeps men away from God...

You have told me many times that any individual Father or other member of the hierarchy is capable of error on his own, but that the pack is always right. This is what I struggle with in accepting. That, and scriptural interpretation. :)

In the end, it comes down to authority, I suppose. Who do we believe has given us "God's Word"? We know that the Scripture itself is not self-attesting, so we rely on other people to have witnessed something quite spectacular and have handed that down. It is a matter of "do we believe" or not.

When Christ gave the Apostles the power to bind and loosen, he also gave it to Peter individually (Mt 18, Mt 16). We believe that DESPITE humans being fallible and wounded recepticles, they ARE God's choices, the clay pots that God has chosen to pass His Word to us. Do you agree that God could have chosen "perfect" men, men of supreme skill and ability, sinless in every way, to be His corridor of passing His Word to others? What does Paul say about weakness being the obvious means of God's Power? Through those individually fallible men, God has promised to guide them to all truth. There is plenty of Scriptural evidence to suggest that "the Church is the pillar and foundation of the Truth". Either we believe that the Holy Spirit is guiding a group of men to interpret God's Word when called upon to do so (during heresy), or we have NO CLUE on what God has taught as His Word. It has thus become entirely corrupted - since there are a number of Christians who disagree on essential issues. Either God's Spirit is One of Truth, or He hasn't protected it very well - and we CANNOT KNOW what the Truth IS!

When if every Christian was Protestant? And when if someone asked "Is baptism necessary for salvation?" THIS IS A CRITICAL QUESTION! Protestantism CANNOT answer this simple question. Really - is the Spirit protecting the Church or not? Your way has Christians at the whim of every "Pastor Bob" that comes along who can whip up the crowd.

Regards

2,963 posted on 02/23/2006 3:25:47 PM PST by jo kus
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To: jo kus
So God only protected the first generation from error?

FK: In a word, YES. :)

Where exactly does the Scripture even IMPLY that? This sounds like another man-made tradition that keeps men away from God...

It's not so much that scripture says this, but it doesn't support your position either. We both know the Bible has plenty of verses that warn us to beware of those who come and teach error. I am not asserting that those verses are directed at Catholics! :) I am saying how can we know who they are talking about? I would attempt to know by measuring any teaching against the Bible.

In the end, it comes down to authority, I suppose. Who do we believe has given us "God's Word"?

I agree with you.

Do you agree that God could have chosen "perfect" men, men of supreme skill and ability, sinless in every way, to be His corridor of passing His Word to others?

If I am following you, then I would agree with you in answering 'no'.

There is plenty of Scriptural evidence to suggest that "the Church is the pillar and foundation of the Truth". Either we believe that the Holy Spirit is guiding a group of men to interpret God's Word when called upon to do so (during heresy), or we have NO CLUE on what God has taught as His Word.

So, God is not the pillar and foundation of the Truth? There are verses that say this? I don't agree with your either-or scenario. You are saying it is either your system, with your people, or there is chaos. That's not true, God gives us His word. Sure, there are some who misinterpret it, and they will have to answer for it someday. That is fine with me. I don't believe that popularity equals truth.

When if every Christian was Protestant? And when if someone asked "Is baptism necessary for salvation?" THIS IS A CRITICAL QUESTION! Protestantism CANNOT answer this simple question.

You are right in that some would be wrong. :) But, as I said before, I don't see baptism as necessarily critical. Faith is what is critical. I can't say I know for sure on this, but it makes sense to me that the vast majority of those who are saved and have achieved any reasonable level of sanctification, choose to be baptized, at least if they never have been, because they know Jesus said we should be. I can't think of any people I know, whom I'm guessing are saved, who have not been baptized either as an infant or a believer, or as in my case, both :).

3,024 posted on 02/25/2006 2:46:40 PM PST by Forest Keeper
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