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To: Forest Keeper; jo kus
Jo kus to explain how Wisdom came from the Father before time began

Wisdom is the Father, and the Wisdom generates the Word and from that Widsom proceeds the Spirit. As +John of Damascus (8th c)

There never was a time when the Son or the Spirit was not. We cannot speak, or limit limit God in the constraints of time. That does not mean that there is no precedence in Godhead. The Father is the source of both the Son and the Spirit from eternity.

So, as +Gregory Palams states "as regards [their] existence" the Son, as well as the Spirit, owe their existence to the Father. In other words, the Father is the source and cause of everything, and all, including the Divinity.

2,938 posted on 02/23/2006 3:09:26 AM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50
+John of Damascus (8th c)

"God is also Father, being ever unbegotten, for He was born of no one, but hath begotten His co-eternal Son: God is likewise Son, being always with the Father, born of the Father timelessly, everlastingly, without flux or passion, or separation from Him. God is also Holy Spirit, being sanctifying power, subsistential, proceeding from the Father without separation, and resting in the Son, identical in essence with Father and Son." [from: The Exact Exposition of Orthodox Faith]

Agree. The Father is the source of the Son and the Spirit. The Father is unbegotten, thus, we call Him the Father, who generates eternally the Son. A mystery in itself.

Regards

2,951 posted on 02/23/2006 4:36:15 AM PST by jo kus
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To: kosta50; jo kus
[From +John of Damascus:] "God is also Father, being ever unbegotten, for He was born of no one, but hath begotten His co-eternal Son: God is likewise Son, being always with the Father, born of the Father timelessly, everlastingly, ..."

There never was a time when the Son or the Spirit was not. We cannot speak, or limit God in the constraints of time. That does not mean that there is no precedence in Godhead. The Father is the source of both the Son and the Spirit from eternity.

I still can't reconcile these two counterintuitive ideas. "Beget" is an action verb, not a state of being. Therefore, there was a time before the action took place. How can it be that the Father is unbegotten, but the Son is begotten? That would seem to say that the Father was before the Son, but you say there was no time when that was the case. What does "beget" mean then?

2,998 posted on 02/24/2006 6:23:45 PM PST by Forest Keeper
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