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To: kosta50; jo kus
[From +John of Damascus:] "God is also Father, being ever unbegotten, for He was born of no one, but hath begotten His co-eternal Son: God is likewise Son, being always with the Father, born of the Father timelessly, everlastingly, ..."

There never was a time when the Son or the Spirit was not. We cannot speak, or limit God in the constraints of time. That does not mean that there is no precedence in Godhead. The Father is the source of both the Son and the Spirit from eternity.

I still can't reconcile these two counterintuitive ideas. "Beget" is an action verb, not a state of being. Therefore, there was a time before the action took place. How can it be that the Father is unbegotten, but the Son is begotten? That would seem to say that the Father was before the Son, but you say there was no time when that was the case. What does "beget" mean then?

2,998 posted on 02/24/2006 6:23:45 PM PST by Forest Keeper
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To: Forest Keeper; Kolokotronis; jo kus; annalex
Therefore, there was a time before the action took place

No there wasn't, FK. You are stuck on creation and can't think God outside of it. God existed before time. His existence cannot be expressed in terms of time, nor in any physical terms. Our mind cannot comprehend God, yet you are saying 'there must have been a time' when this was not so.

God does not fall under physical laws; His presence is not limited by the speed of light. He is ever-present yesterday, today and tomorrow. He is in the Milky Way galaxy and in Andromeda galaxy -- 2 million light years away, and in all the galaxies in the universe, tends of billions of light years away...

The best that we can "explain" is by imagining a well -- or a water fountain. It is hardly even worth discussion at which point the water actually welled up, but well it did from the source, the well.

3,002 posted on 02/24/2006 6:35:05 PM PST by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: Forest Keeper; jo kus; annalex; Agrarian
"I still can't reconcile these two counterintuitive ideas. "Beget" is an action verb, not a state of being. Therefore, there was a time before the action took place. How can it be that the Father is unbegotten, but the Son is begotten? That would seem to say that the Father was before the Son, but you say there was no time when that was the case. What does "beget" mean then?"

Oh, FK, you're such a Westerner! Begotten means "gennhqenta"; its quite simple! :)

Kosta, in #3002, has responded in one quite appropriate way to the rest of your confusion. Let me add something. The Cappadocian Fathers were fond of this aphorism: "I believe in God; God does not "exist"." What they meant was that God doesn't exist within any frame of reference available to us. This is because He is "Existence", He is "BEING", for which reason the Fathers call Him "W WN"

3,005 posted on 02/24/2006 7:12:01 PM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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