It's funny, my worm can opener was sitting quietly on a shelf just a few feet away from me until just after I read this. Then it started vibrating uncontrollably, even though it wasn't plugged in! :) So, I'll just ask, what is the deal with Jesus going down into Hades, and is Hades the same as Hell? Is there any scriptural support for this?
[In the same list:] Why did He [Jesus] rise on Great and Holy Pascha? Was it part of some divine farce, a show put on to entertain God? That's what predestination and a denial of free will would seem to require one to believe. If we have nothing at all to do with our own damnation or salvation, or if all we have to do since the greatest event in the history of the world is say the "sinner's prayer" and we're "in", then the conclusion is inescapable that God is a great impressario putting on shows for His own entertainment and really nothing more. But The Church doesn't teach that at all.
Why does predestination imply a divine farce? I read your explanation, but it doesn't make sense to me. On temporal physics I think it was Kosta who gave us the image of God standing on a mountain top, looking down and around the mountain, and seeing all time occur simultaneously. I have no problem with this.
I have questioned before that if God already knows everything that is going to happen, as we experience time, then why does He bother to get out of bed in the morning? How boring. The answer is that I have no idea and I am sure that I could not comprehend the true answer. I am saying it is the same with predestination. If I am paraphrasing Kosta correctly then God does not wait around to see what will happen with our "free will" decisions. He already knows, so that appears to shoot the theory of God putting on any "shows". We just can't know what God's motives are for the way He ordered the universe.
+John says:
"He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world."
The whole world, FK, not just the "elect", assuming even for a moment that the sins of the "elect" need atonement which seems, well, a bit of a contradiction.
I would agree that the sacrifice that Jesus made was sufficient to save all of mankind, but it was only efficacious to the elect. Why wouldn't the sins of the elect need atonement? I would say they do. I also say that God will make sure that it happens. :)
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Thanks for the quote from +John Chrysostomos on Adam and Eve being banished from the garden. I really was just guessing, so it's nice to see I wasn't pulling something out of my, ... umm ... ear. :)
The tree of knowledge itself was good, and its fruit was good. For it was not the tree that had death in it, as some think, but the disobedience which had death in it; for there was nothing else in the fruit but knowledge alone; but knowledge is good when one uses it properly.
That sounds reasonable to me. I'm not aware of a teaching which says that death was in the tree.
"So, I'll just ask, what is the deal with Jesus going down into Hades, and is Hades the same as Hell?"
Eastern Christianity speculates on three "places" for souls, the abode of the dead (Hades) Heaven which is a sort of noetic union with the energies but not the substance of God and Hell, which will be the place of eternal torment after the Final Judgment.
"Why does predestination imply a divine farce? I read your explanation, but it doesn't make sense to me. On temporal physics I think it was Kosta who gave us the image of God standing on a mountain top, looking down and around the mountain, and seeing all time occur simultaneously. I have no problem with this."
FK, you're confusing foreknowledge with predestination. If everything was "predestined" and we mortals have absolutely nothing to do with our own theosis, then indeed the Incarnation was just an unnecssary carnival show.
"I would agree that the sacrifice that Jesus made was sufficient to save all of mankind, but it was only efficacious to the elect."
Aside from Calvin and perhaps some remark by +Augustine, where does this idea come from?
If God stands on a mountain top looking down through the "corridors of time", why does our Lord Jesus need to die for all men? Doesn't God know who will and will not be saved? Thus the idea that God wants all men to be saved mean nothing because God already knows all men will not be saved.
OTOH, continuing under this view, God already knows who will continue to walk with Him. So aren't these people really predestined?
The trouble with all of this is it places salvation squarely upon man's shoulders.