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Sure. Augustine speaks of man's neutrality. No doubt about it. I just happen to think that Augustine didn't take his predestination premise far enough. He was on the correct track but didn't further the logical conclusion and implication that man's steps are ordained by the Lord.

On the other hand Catholic and Orthodox completely reject Augustine's Trestise of Predestination so what does it matter?

Sure. Augustine speaks of man's neutrality. No doubt about it. I just happen to think that Augustine didn't take his predestination premise far enough. He was on the correct track but didn't further the logical conclusion and implication that man's steps are ordained by the Lord.

Ok, first you quote Augustine completely and say he's completely correct and you follow everything this man said. Then, when told that Augustine actually didn't agree with the robot-maker idea, you state that Augustine didn't go far enough.

WHO went far enough, in your opinion? Rasputin? Anton Szandor LaVey?

On the other hand Catholic and Orthodox completely reject Augustine's Trestise of Predestination so what does it matter?

I can't sperak for the Latin brothers, but I would venture to guess that they share the same belief on predestination as we (Eastern Orthodox) do.

You must not have had your coffee yet, since you are spouting ignorance as fact once again.

The subject of presdestination is a profound Divine mystery -- it is Orthodox dogma. Trouble is, it is not your dogma, and since you know nothing of the Church of Christ, you believe that the Protestants "discovered" predestination after they read the Bible.

There is a lot more than these pages allow to discuss here, but sufficie it to say that you Protestants do not understand the difference between God's will and His foreknowledge. The two are not one and the same. For you to being to understand this, you would have to read the Desert Fathers (3rd century), the Cappacodian Fathers (4th and 5th century) and, most of all, the work of +Gregory Palamas (13th century). And, before you even think it, rest assured that their work is studded with Scriptural references.

On the other hand Catholic and Orthodox completely reject Augustine's Trestise of Predestination so what does it matter?

Completely? Really? Doesn't the Council of Orange (2) cite some of St. Augustine's work on predestination to refute the Pelagians and Semi-Pelagians? Because the Church did not go for his mass damnatia doesn't mean that everything that St. Augustine said about predestination was ignored. There still is a school of thought in Catholicism that holds to his teachings (and not the contorted teachings that Calvin twists from St. Augustine).

Regards