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To: Claud

Did you read the links I posted?

GRAHAM: "Yes, it is, because I believe that I've met people in various parts of the world in tribal situations, that they have never seen a Bible or heard about a Bible, and never heard of Jesus, but they've believed in their hearts that there was a God, and they've tried to live a life that was quite apart from the surrounding community in which they lived."

No Bible, no knowledge of Christ, just a heart-felt yearning and living a life apart from the rest will save?


19 posted on 12/28/2005 1:58:28 PM PST by ItsOurTimeNow ("Hail Him who saved you by His grace, and crown Him Lord of All")
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To: ItsOurTimeNow
GRAHAM: "Yes, it is, because I believe that I've met people in various parts of the world in tribal situations, that they have never seen a Bible or heard about a Bible, and never heard of Jesus, but they've believed in their hearts that there was a God, and they've tried to live a life that was quite apart from the surrounding community in which they lived."

No Bible, no knowledge of Christ, just a heart-felt yearning and living a life apart from the rest will save?

According to the Catholic doctrine of Baptism of Desire, a person who sincerely desires to live a good life, and who WOULD receive the sacrament of Baptism if they knew about it, CAN be saved.

Catholics don't believe that God autmatically rejects those who never heard of Him. Even they have a chance.

24 posted on 12/28/2005 3:31:14 PM PST by JoeFromSidney (My book is out. Read excerpts at www.thejusticecooperative.com)
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To: ItsOurTimeNow
No Bible, no knowledge of Christ, just a heart-felt yearning and living a life apart from the rest will save?

Would you be jealous if Jesus decided saved one like this? Well, maybe that's a good thing for you - if it doesn't cause hate or anger at them perhaps.

49 posted on 12/29/2005 3:02:44 AM PST by D-fendr
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To: ItsOurTimeNow

You condemn those who have never had exposure to the Word of God or His Son, the Living Word. Problem here bub is that even the Son said that those who do not have the Law (who do not know tha Word) will be judged without it. In other words, if they don't know it through no fault of their own, they will be judged without it.


51 posted on 12/29/2005 5:44:21 AM PST by Romish_Papist (Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.)
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To: ItsOurTimeNow
No Bible, no knowledge of Christ, just a heart-felt yearning and living a life apart from the rest will save?

There are two kinds of knowledge of Christ--knowing Christ through the Scriptures and through the Church, and knowing Christ interiorly. It is possible for someone to know Christ interiorly, but never having been exposed to a missionary, to not really be able to put the Name to the Face so to speak. In any case, it is *always* Christ who saves. No other religion is salvific in and of itself, and all those from other religions who might be saved, will be saved solely because of Christ.

Here's the full quote from Graham:

SCHULLER: What, what I hear you saying that it's possible for Jesus Christ to come into human hearts and souls and life, even if they've been born in darkness and have never had exposure to the Bible. Is that a correct interpretation of what you're saying?

GRAHAM: Yes, it is, because I believe that I've met people in various parts of the world in tribal situations, that they have never seen a Bible or heard about a Bible, and never heard of Jesus, but they've believed in their hearts that there was a God, and they've tried to live a life that was quite apart from the surrounding community in which they lived.

That is 100% orthodox. He says that it's possible for "Jesus Christ to come into human hearts and souls and life" for those in darkness. This *has* to be the case logically. Else how could a nonbeliever come to Christ in the first place? He must be led on by some hidden operation of grace prior to his conversion.

As for his other quote as follows:

GRAHAM: Well, Christianity and being a true believer--you know, I think there's the Body of Christ. This comes from all the Christian groups around the world, outside the Christian groups. I think everybody that loves Christ, or knows Christ, whether they're conscious of it or not, they're members of the Body of Christ. And I don't think that we're going to see a great sweeping revival that will turn the whole world to Christ at any time. I think James answered that, the Apostle James in the first council in Jerusalem, when he said God's purpose for this age is to call out a people for His name. And that's what God is doing today, He's calling people out of the world for His name, whether they come from the Muslim world, or the Buddhist world, or the Christian world or the non-believing world, they are members of the Body of Christ because they've been called by GOD. They may not even know the name of Jesus but they know in their hearts they need something that they don't have, and they turn to the only light that they have, and I think they are saved, and that they're going to be with us in heaven.
Graham is not saying that these folks will be saved apart from Christ. He is saying that they may be saved, yes, but I'm sure if you pressed him on it, he would say that they are being saved by Christ, with Christ, and through Christ--whether they know it or not.
53 posted on 12/29/2005 6:01:25 AM PST by Claud
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