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To: sirchtruth
These are Jesus' own apostles, not just any man.

Acts 1:15-26 - the first thing Peter does after Jesus ascends into heaven is implement apostolic succession. Matthias is ordained with full apostolic authority. Only the Catholic Church can demonstrate an unbroken apostolic lineage to the apostles in union with Peter through the sacrament of ordination and thereby claim to teach with Christ's own authority.

Acts 1:20 - a successor of Judas is chosen. The authority of his office (his "bishopric") is respected notwithstanding his egregious sin. The necessity to have apostolic succession in order for the Church to survive was understood by all. God never said, "I'll give you leaders with authority for about 400 years, but after the Bible is compiled, you are all on your own."

Acts 1:22 - literally, "one must be ordained" to be a witness with us of His resurrection. Apostolic ordination is required in order to teach with Christ's authority.

Acts 6:6 - apostolic authority is transferred through the laying on of hands (ordination). This authority has transferred beyond the original twelve apostles as the Church has grown.

Acts 9:17-19 - even Paul, who was directly chosen by Christ, only becomes a minister after the laying on of hands by a bishop. This is a powerful proof-text for the necessity of sacramental ordination in order to be a legitimate successor of the apostles.

Acts 13:3 - apostolic authority is transferred through the laying on of hands (ordination). This authority must come from a Catholic bishop.

Acts 14:23 - the apostles and newly-ordained men appointed elders to have authority throughout the Church.

Acts 15:22-27 - preachers of the Word must be sent by the bishops in union with the Church. We must trace this authority to the apostles.

2 Cor. 1:21-22 - Paul writes that God has commissioned certain men and sealed them with the Holy Spirit as a guarantee.

Col 1:25 - Paul calls his position a divine "office." An office has successors. It does not terminate at death. Or it's not an office. See also Heb. 7:23 – an office continues with another successor after the previous office-holder’s death.

1 Tim. 3:1 - Paul uses the word "episcopoi" (bishop) which requires an office. Everyone understood that Paul's use of episcopoi and office meant it would carry on after his death by those who would succeed him.

Furthermore, by setting up a system in which people are taught you have to confess your sins to a priest is not only wrong, it's a slap in the face to God who who set up the ONLY way for man to be forgiven his sins was by the brutal death of HIS son, our SAVIOR. <.i>

John 20:23 - Jesus says, "If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven. If you retain the sins of any, they are retained." In order for the apostles to exercise this gift of forgiving sins, the penitents must orally confess their sins to them because the apostles are not mind readers. The text makes this very clear.

Matt. 9:8 - this verse shows that God has given the authority to forgive sins to "men."

Matt. 9:6; Mark 2:10 - Christ forgave sins as a man (not God) to convince us that the "Son of man" has authority to forgive sins on earth.

Luke 5:24 - Luke also points out that Jesus' authority to forgive sins is as a man, not God. The Gospel writers record this to convince us that God has given this authority to men. This authority has been transferred from Christ to the apostles and their successors.

To not go directly to him yourself, has to be quite an insult. Think about this.

1 Tim. 2:5 - Christ is the only mediator, but He was free to decide how His mediation would be applied to us. The Lord chose to use priests of God to carry out His work of forgiveness.

Sir. 4:26 - God tells us not to be ashamed to confess our sins, and not to try to stop the current of a river. Anyone who has experienced the sacrament of reconciliation understands the import of this verse.

Out of his great love, Jesus instituted this sacrament through which a sinner who is sorry receives pardon and peace and is restored to the fullness of grace with God. "You also should do as I have done to you" (Jn 13:15). Mercy is the absolutely free initiative by which God has chosen his priests: "You did not choose me but I chose you" (Jn 15:16).

Think about this!

56 posted on 12/26/2005 12:39:50 PM PST by NYer ("Socialism is the religion people get when they lose their religion")
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To: NYer
In order for the apostles to exercise this gift of forgiving sins, the penitents must orally confess their sins to them because the apostles are not mind readers. The text makes this very clear.

Along with your other comments this is some of the most screwed up theology I've ever seen!

You're taking the authority of Christ to forgive sins and the Apostles annoitings and delegating them to men that are not only NOT direct desendants, as you claim, but do not even have a lineage.

If this is the case why did Christ have to die if any man who goes to seminary can forgive sins? This is so bogus and absolutely unscriptural it boaders on the wistful!

Can you not even appear to put some of those scriptures in context? Let's just concentrate on one at a time:


Matt. 9:8 But when the multitudes saw it, they marvelled and glorified God, which had given such power unto men?
- this verse shows that God has given the authority to forgive sins to "men."

It does? How? Christ healed the man, what is the scripture referring to, Forgiveness of sin, healing, or both? Look at the context. Read Matt:9:1-8, the whole context.

64 posted on 12/26/2005 3:27:59 PM PST by sirchtruth (Words Mean Things...)
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