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To: HarleyD
During the time of Wycliffe and Huss the official position of the church was that the true church consisted of the Pope and the cardinals his bishops and priests and that common lay people were not real members but only communed with the church as they received communion, which was limited to bread.

Pardon me while I shake my head and roll my eyes.

Got any proof whatsoever that this was "the official position of the church"? Any proof, beyond "this guy says so"?

Oh, sorry, I'm just an "unholy spirit" for insisting that people tell the truth, even when it doesn't serve their purpose of slamming Rome as the source of all evils.

5 posted on 11/30/2005 6:24:25 AM PST by Campion ("I am so tired of you, liberal church in America" -- Mother Angelica, 1993)
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To: Campion
Got any proof whatsoever that this was "the official position of the church"? Any proof, beyond "this guy says so"?

The proof is in reading the entire sentence you quoted:

The early Church used the term church (ekklesia) in the way it was used in Mt 16:18. Meaning the universal church is made up of individual, particular churches, not individual, particular Christians as would be in the other definition of ekklesia.

In historical Church documents in Medieval times and before you will find that when referring to members of the church it almost always refers strictly to the hierarchy of the Church.

The Church's practice of withholding the cup from the laity only served to increase the distinction between the church (who practiced communion of both kinds) and the commoner (who was only permitted communion of one kind, bread).

This led Huss to argue that John 6:54 required all to be permitted communion of both kinds and also that the definition of church (ekklesia) should be as a congregation (all are the church) and not just that of the universal church (the hierarchy is the church).

15 posted on 11/30/2005 9:30:53 AM PST by Between the Lines (Be careful how you live your life, it may be the only gospel anyone reads.)
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