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To: Campion
Got any proof whatsoever that this was "the official position of the church"? Any proof, beyond "this guy says so"?

The proof is in reading the entire sentence you quoted:

The early Church used the term church (ekklesia) in the way it was used in Mt 16:18. Meaning the universal church is made up of individual, particular churches, not individual, particular Christians as would be in the other definition of ekklesia.

In historical Church documents in Medieval times and before you will find that when referring to members of the church it almost always refers strictly to the hierarchy of the Church.

The Church's practice of withholding the cup from the laity only served to increase the distinction between the church (who practiced communion of both kinds) and the commoner (who was only permitted communion of one kind, bread).

This led Huss to argue that John 6:54 required all to be permitted communion of both kinds and also that the definition of church (ekklesia) should be as a congregation (all are the church) and not just that of the universal church (the hierarchy is the church).

15 posted on 11/30/2005 9:30:53 AM PST by Between the Lines (Be careful how you live your life, it may be the only gospel anyone reads.)
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To: Between the Lines
In historical Church documents in Medieval times and before you will find that when referring to members of the church it almost always refers strictly to the hierarchy of the Church.

Examples?

In any case, that is not what the original citation claimed, which was that the official teaching of the Church at the time was that lay people were not members.

16 posted on 11/30/2005 9:41:18 AM PST by Campion ("I am so tired of you, liberal church in America" -- Mother Angelica, 1993)
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To: Between the Lines

This is utter and absolute nonsense. The sentence you highlight involves a halftruth that, in this context, becomes a total falsehood. But several earlier posters are right. This was not posted to seek truth, it was posted to inflame. It's not worth the time to explain exactly what the Church taught at the time about the nature of the hierarchy of the Church and of the laity. The article is a tissue of misrepresentations, half-truths and whole-falsehoods.


32 posted on 11/30/2005 1:15:46 PM PST by Dionysiusdecordealcis
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