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To: x5452
2 cases of abuse are par for the course, they are not the epidemic (nor the MASSIVE administrative cover up) that has shown itself in the catholic church.

Some comments are in order here.

First, you are confusing what happened in the US with the entire Catholic Church. Despite what many Americans think, we are not the center of the world. The Catholic Church in America represents less than 10% of Roman Catholicism. Let's not lose sight of that fact. America is not the Catholic Church's paradigm!

Second of all, as terrible a job as the Bishops did, one must recognize that part of the problem was the advice they received from PROFESSIONAL psychologists! Upon THEIR advice, the bishops placed these priests in a short 1-2 month program, declared them cured, and sent them to other churches. ONLY NOW do we know that the disease that leads to sexual abuse is akin to alcoholism. It is not "cured" ever. It is only held in check. This doesn't excuse the Bishops actions, but we should take into account what they knew and were told by "experts".

And finally, there is a lot of doubt on the merit of the majority of the cases. While the first cases were certainly legitimate, I think most doubt that 5-10 years later, some of these people suddenly "remembered" that they, too, were abused 30 years ago - and wanted financial compensation. Because of the Church's desire to not defend these priests who were often accused on very flimsy grounds, many lay people were led to believe that they could make an easy buck off the Church's problem.

And finally, one must realize that the Church ALWAYS goes through such scandals. Remember when the Church in the East was nearly all Arian? That's the nature of the beast. Unfortunately, the US bishops of the 1960's were not punished for their open dissent from the "contraception" encyclical. This attitude led, I believe, to the acceptance of the American culture's sexual ways within the Church heirarchy here. This in turn eventually bred the sexual abuse cases. When the Church tries to follow the culture rather than God, the Church inevitably will stumble, whether it is following Greek philosphy or loose sexual morals.

Regards

60 posted on 11/22/2005 7:26:43 AM PST by jo kus
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To: jo kus

The US is the relevant question for one joining the Catholic Church in the US in the midst of this struggle.

That is actually my big point. Doctrine is one thing, practice is another. The Catholic doctrine practiced in the Vatican is not the same doctrine practiced at 'US Diocease X'.

Were it a question of official doctrine alone it would be a lot diferent scenerio however when one joins a faith they also incur going to a specific parish, and associating with person of that faith. It opens one to the influence of their execution of that faith. So it is not a measure of doctrine alone it's a measure of the folks in the parish keeping the faith, the priest correcting those who don't, and the bishop correcting the priest when he doesn't follow it, or fails to address parishioners not following it.

FWIW if he was joining an Eastern Catholic church it would also be a lot different being as those churches operating both in the US and in the East have not suffered the same kind of entrenchment of these problems.

As I've stated on other threads the reason I was never baptised Catholic even though I went to a Catholic school, and largely beleived the Catholic religion classes was that it was plain to me that the doctrine in those materials was not followed by the majority.

So it comes down to a question of do I go with a church that has an official ban on contraception, and abortion, and divorce, but whenever I meet parishioners outside church they openly support these things, or do I go with the one that has the same beleifs on abortion and divorce, and an apparently relaxed policy on contraception, but when I meet parishioners they support the church's stance on these, and remind me to do things like fast during fasting periods, etc.

One must be interested in both following a doctrine that leads to the kingdom and also being in a parish headed that way, that will keep one in line when one treads off the path.

I suspect there are a great many parishs in the Catholic church like that some even in America, but certainly haven't seen them where I live.

[Further I resent the notion that the pope is the head of the church, and sinless, where as the orthodox don't call any men sinless and confess Christ to be the head of the church; that is the main difference.]


63 posted on 11/22/2005 7:42:06 AM PST by x5452
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