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To: NYer

[..there is a conflict between the Bible and the Catholic Church over being “born again.”]

And there is indeed! The bible is clear about salvation being by grace through faith only and the baptism is not of water, but by the Holy Spirit, which is Christ in you.
When you add works to the faith, then faith is vain as it rests on works and not faith.
Would to God all Christians read the Word of God before believing traditons!

II Timothy 3; 15And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.


449 posted on 11/14/2005 5:56:03 AM PST by kindred (Democrats are amoral (no moral values) and don't know it.)
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To: kindred
Mark 1:10 "And when he came up out of the water, immediately he saw the heavens opened and the Spirit descending upon him like a dove; "

John 3:5 "Jesus answered, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.'"

452 posted on 11/14/2005 6:03:56 AM PST by Rutles4Ever ("Fizellas! Looks like you guys are up to no good. Well, THIS gang used to be like that TOO, 3, 4)
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To: kindred
Would to God all Christians read the Word of God before believing traditons!

Would to God all Christians read the ENTIRE Word of God before forming a theology.

454 posted on 11/14/2005 6:12:15 AM PST by Rutles4Ever ("Fizellas! Looks like you guys are up to no good. Well, THIS gang used to be like that TOO, 3, 4)
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To: kindred

The bible quite clearly states, and has already been posted multiple times in this thread, that we are NOT saved by faith alone. That we must not only beleive but also be baptised, repent for our sins, and show our repentance with deeds.


456 posted on 11/14/2005 6:27:35 AM PST by x5452
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To: kindred

James 5:16 Confess [your] faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Acts 26:20 First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and to the Gentiles also, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and prove their repentance by their deeds.

Christ intended that we confess our sins to one another and repent for them.

Standing up and saying 'I'm saved' on afternoon doesn't do it, no matter how enthusiastically you proclaim it.


457 posted on 11/14/2005 6:33:48 AM PST by x5452
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To: kindred
The bible is clear about salvation being by grace through faith only

Brother, the bible is clear that salvation is NOT by faith alone. See James 2. Find me ONE verse that we are saved by faith to the exclusion of anything else (faith alone).

the baptism is not of water, but by the Holy Spirit, which is Christ in you.

What does John 3 say - born of WATER AND Spirit. Thus, God cleanses us spritually during the outward ritual of water baptism.

When you add works to the faith, then faith is vain as it rests on works and not faith

Are you adding faith to something? Is faith from you? Explain the difference between faith being a gift from God and deeds of love being a gift from God? BOTH are gifts from God and required for our salvation.

Would to God all Christians read the Word of God before believing traditons!

ALL Traditions? Even the one that the very Bible tells us to continue holding to?

"Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle." (2 Thes 2:15)

Please point out to me where the Scripture nullifies this command to hold onto oral traditions given by the Apostles?

...II Timothy 3; 15

Yes, the Scriptures are USEFUL, but not ALONE. Have you read Eph 4:11-13?

"And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ"

I would like to point out that the teachings of the Apostles ARE edifying and PERFECT man in the knowledge of Christ. BOTH Scripture AND the teachings (Traditions) of the Apostles. This destroys the concept of Scripture alone - by the Scripture itself.

Brother, I'd seriously re-consider WHOM is in conflict with the Bible...It's NOT the Catholic Church.

Regards

458 posted on 11/14/2005 8:28:00 AM PST by jo kus
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