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To: x5452
I have not refused to answer anything. Please forgive If I can't answer as quickly as you would like. I have other things That I must do like earn a living.



An Infant Is Not Subject To Bible Baptism

An infant is not a subject of Bible baptism. The teaching of the Bible in regard to baptism eliminates the infant. Jesus said, "All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth, Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world" (Matt. 28:18-20). Again Christ said, "Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned" (Mk. 16:15-16). Peter commanded, "Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins . . ." (Acts 2:38). One must also be able to confess his faith in Christ (Matt. 10:32; Acts 8:37; Rom. 10:10).

An infant is not a subject of Bible baptism for a subject of Bible baptism has to be capable of being: (1) taught, (2) believing, (3) repenting of sins, (4) confessing his faith in Christ and (5) submitting to immersion.

Infants Are Not Sinners

An infant is not a sinner. We are often told that an infant has "original sin" on its soul. The Bible does not teach that! Jesus said concerning little children, "Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for such is the kingdom of God" (Mk. 10:14). Again Christ said, "Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven" (Mt. 18:3). A person has to commit sin in order to become a sinner. "Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law" (1 Jn. 3:4). There is a period in the life of a child, "before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good . . ." (Isa. 7:16). "God hath made man upright; but they have sought out many inventions" (Eccl. 7:29). Ezekiel said, "The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him" (Ezek. 18:20).

"Infant Baptism" Not Practiced in The Bible

"Infant baptism" was not practiced by the apostles and the early church: All eleven cases of conversion in the book of Acts show that men heard the gospel preached, believed and were baptized. There is no record in the New Testament of an infant ever being baptized, or having water poured or sprinkled on him!

"Infant Baptism" Robs The Child

It robs the child of freedom of choice. Each is to do his own choosing as to whether he wants to obey God or disobey (Josh. 24:15, Rev. 22:17). It may rob the child of salvation. Many times a child, when he grows older, refuses to be baptized, saying, "My parents had me baptized when I was a baby." Thus, the child refuses to obey God (Matt. 7:21; Heb. 5:8-9). I would not want to base my salvation on the testimony of another
271 posted on 11/11/2005 1:35:40 PM PST by bremenboy (I am always right except when I am wrong)
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To: bremenboy

Of course the instances in Acts were adults--it was the adults to whom the Apostles were speaking! You either forget or are ignoring the instances of one person being baptized for the whole family, or the fact that circumcision was replaced by baptism, or the fact that God's grace is free to all, and since you make every OTHER choice for you infant (they have not the ability), why WAIT to share God's glory with them? I mean, you can choose what they should eat for dinner or what they should wear, but not whether they should share in the salvation that comes with baptism?!


290 posted on 11/11/2005 2:13:26 PM PST by jcb8199
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To: bremenboy

You are now twisiting scripture to ignore the children Christ so loved. When will you twist it to exclude others?

Up until extremely recently it was quite acceptable for parents to make such decisions for their children and a responsibility for parents to explain Christianity to their children.

Only here has it become optional, and vague.


304 posted on 11/11/2005 3:00:18 PM PST by x5452
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To: bremenboy
If a parent truly believes the Christian faith and loves his children, he will wish that they share his faith, right?

If a parent does not care whether his children share his faith either he does not love his children or he does not hold his Christian beliefs very dear, right?

So, a parent who does truly believe that Jesus of Nazareth is God incarnate, died for our sins, redeemed the world, would devoutly wish that his children be redeemed by the precious blood of Christ, right?

Now, if baptism is a sacrament that redeems from sin, washes away our sins, as St. Peter and Jesus himself (Jn 3) said, and above all, incorporates one into the very Body of Christ, makes us adopted children of God rather than mere creatures

if this is what baptism is, then no parent in his right mind would wish his children not to share in this.

But if baptism is next-to-nothing, merely an afterthought confirming the faith that the human person has in his heart, if it is merely an external sign of an inner conversion, then baptism cannot do all the above things and a parent would not be wrong not to desire it for his children.

So it all turns on what baptism is--is it the sacrament by which we are cleansed of sins and incorporated into Christ (a child has no actual sins and original does not damn to hell, but original sin is a disorder that the parent rightly wishes to have washed away, and incorporation into Christ is such a stupendous thing that no parent in his right mind would want his child deprived of it) or is it not?

So your quarrel about infant baptism really has to do with the nature of baptism and nothing else. The problem with the view that baptism does not itself save from sin and incorporate into Christ and wash away original sin is that such a view is unknown in the history of Christianity until the 1100s and 1500s. The Scriptures speak plainly about baptism saving from sin, washing from sin, incorporating into Christ etc.

But, if one does believe that baptism is no big deal compared to inner conversion, then he certainly will not believe in infant baptism. The rest of us, including those Calvinists who fudge on the saving from sins part but at least do retain the incorporating into the covenant part (they fudge on incorporation into the Church), especially those of us who believe that Peter meant what he said when he said it washes from sin, the rest of us recognize that baptizing infants is the most perfectly ordinary thing to do.

So decide what you believe about what baptism does, then come back to infant baptism.

306 posted on 11/11/2005 3:13:55 PM PST by Dionysiusdecordealcis
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