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A Religious Upheaval in India: What It Means for Catholicism
Catholic Exchange ^ | October 18, 2005 | Brian St. Paul

Posted on 10/18/2005 9:02:19 AM PDT by NYer

Devidas Sabane was a diligent farmer, working the land of a former member of the Indian parliament. When his son fell ill, the impoverished Sabane went to the landowner's brother to request money for his treatment. The brother wasn't in a giving mood.


In This Article...
A Life of Contempt
Christianity or Islam?
At the Crossroads

A Life of Contempt

He beat Sabane viciously and forced poison down his throat. The farmer died later that day. When his bereaved wife reported the murder to the police and the State Human Rights Commission, they brushed her off. She later committed suicide.

This is India today. The account — one among many — comes from the testimony of Indira Athwale, given last week before the United States Committee on International Relations. You see, the Sabanes weren't just Indians, they were Untouchable.

India is made up of a caste system, a construct of its Hindu heritage. At the top are the Brahmins — the priestly class. Below them are the Kshatriyas, then the Vaisyas, and finally the Sudras.

There's another group that hasn't even merited a place on the Indian social ladder: the Dalit, otherwise known as the Untouchables. Life as an Untouchable is devastating. They're held in contempt by other members of society, are relegated to the most menial of jobs, and even physical contact with them is thought to bring contamination (requiring special purification rituals to cleanse the higher caste member). Their women are raped without retribution, and their men beaten and killed without justice.

While discrimination against the 250 million Dalit is officially prohibited in the Indian constitution, it continues unabated. That they make up almost 1/3 of the country's population is irrelevant.

They're Untouchable and have no voice.

But now, something is happening among the Dalit — and it may have effects on the religious future of the country.

You see, after centuries of shameful oppression by their fellow Hindus, the Untouchables are starting to move away from the religion. Initially, there were large Dalit conversions to Buddhism. But the attractions of that faith are proving limited.

Christianity or Islam?

So now, two religions are receiving attention and a growing number of Dalit converts: Christianity and Islam. The possibilities here are striking.

I spoke recently with Betsy Vigneri, a media consultant with the Dalit Freedom Network, and she told me the shift began in the late 1990s. "It was a culmination of things," she said. "The world moved toward globalization, technology, and communication. Suddenly, some of the educated Dalits were able to see what was happening in the outside world. They realized they could tell their story to a global audience. That's when they organized and began to look for ways to help themselves. They also realized that the best way to find relief from this victimization — from this slavery — is to quit Hinduism and embrace another religion."

The transition wasn't easy at first. "Originally, the Christian churches were also practicing the caste system. But now, they're working for freedom of conscience in religion. They're there to serve — the same approach Mother Teresa took. In their service, they're trying to demonstrate the love of Christ."

While the Muslims are making every effort to convert the Untouchables, the Christian churches have an advantage: the person of Christ. "I've found that when Dalits hear about Jesus, they're deeply moved to learn that He loves them," Vigneri said. "All their lives, they've been told how horrible they are. But they hear that Jesus not only loves them but died for them. In their minds, He reached out to the Untouchables of His day. Touched them... talked to them... ate with them... These are all forbidden for a higher caste person to do with the Dalits."

But Islam itself is not without its own attractions. When an Untouchable becomes Muslim, the female converts are protected by the Muslim men from the harassment of the Hindus. This is no small thing, since Dalit women are in frequent danger of assault and rape.

On the other hand, there are aspects of Islam that some Untouchables find disconcerting. Vigneri noted that "there are Dalit men who have seen how some Muslim men treat their wives or view women. They don't want that for their wives and daughters."

While Muslim and Christian leaders in India have had fairly cordial relations thus far, there is real concern that if India turns Islamic, Sharia law could be imposed on everyone. Given the experience of non-Muslims in other such states, that could mean an entirely new form of oppression.

At the Crossroads

Vigneri told me that there are a few things Christians in the West can do to help the Untouchables — both in their fight against their horrific living conditions and in their spiritual journey:

1. Spread the word about what's going on in India. "So many Christians tell us, 'I had no idea this was happening.' The Dalits want us to tell the world what they're going through. This is very humbling. We tend to think people want creature comforts. But the Dalits want their stories told."

2. Pray. "The first thing Christian Dalits ask for is prayer. These people have nothing, but they know the power of prayer."

3. Stay informed. One of the best ways to keep yourself up-to-date on the struggles of the Untouchables is to visit the Dalit Freedom Network. You can find their website here:
www.dalitnetwork.org.

India is at a religious crossroads. Within one generation, we'll see some kind of radical shift in the spiritual makeup of that rising nation. Will it become the next bright light for Christianity, or might it join other jihadist states in violence and oppression? Time will tell.

We in the United States tend to live in a self-enclosed world. That's the stereotype of Americans, and that stereotype is too often true (and I'm as guilty as anyone). But as Catholics, we have a spiritual obligation to care for all the world's suffering. By adding the plight of the Dalits to your own prayer intentions and by telling their story, you'll help them in this world and the next.



TOPICS: Apologetics; Catholic; Current Events; Eastern Religions; Ecumenism; General Discusssion; History; Islam; Ministry/Outreach; Moral Issues; Prayer; Religion & Culture; Theology
KEYWORDS: caste; convert; dalit; india
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Brian Saint-Paul is editor of Crisis Magazine. This article is reprinted with permission.
1 posted on 10/18/2005 9:02:23 AM PDT by NYer
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To: american colleen; Lady In Blue; Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; Notwithstanding; ...

This is abhorent!


2 posted on 10/18/2005 9:03:51 AM PDT by NYer (“Socialism is the religion people get when they lose their religion")
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To: NYer

The message of Christ ("The last shall be first" "The poor are welcomed but the rich sent away empty") have always appealled to the oppressed. May Almighty God watch over and protect these folks on their journey to the Catholic Faith.


3 posted on 10/18/2005 9:46:02 AM PDT by Antoninus (The greatest gifts parents can give their children are siblings.)
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To: NYer

I've been hearing whispers of this lately, including from Indian born Catholics in our area. It is abhorent, just evil. So much has deteriorated in India and for Indian Catholics since Mother Teresa's death, there has been such a violent backlash against Catholics, and officials seem unconcerned. Our Catholic brothers and sisters throughout areas of Asia and Africa have been severely challenged in recent years and need our prayers. Such a shame what's going on there.


4 posted on 10/18/2005 9:51:31 AM PDT by fortunecookie
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To: NYer
Great article with lots of implications. I have often wanted to ask the offshore Indian "customer relations" person some of our "corporations" hire to take complaints what caste they belonged to but discretion got the better part of valor.

However,I did go to the bookstore to buy some books on the untouchables or Dalit,I asked the clerk for a recommendation and she gave me a blank look. The store carried no books at all on the subject,I pushed and she finally pulled up some books that she thought I could order. More than half of the computer listings were unavailable.

I think it is eerie and astounding that information about this caste is slowly disappearing from the public view. It must be something our one world globalists wish to hide. 200,000,000 men,women and children buried alive,so to speak.

I'm upping my contribution to the Missionaries of Charity. No wonder that smarmy Christopher Hitchen's hated Mother Teresa so much,she was quite a burr in the saddle of those men,who would be gods and ride roughshod over humanity.

5 posted on 10/18/2005 10:31:21 AM PDT by saradippity
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To: saradippity; NYer
What are the odds that the lower 1/3 of India will become 50% or better Catholic converts?

The lower 1/3 of the North Korean population is the out circle of "criminals" that do slave labor in gulags. I'm sure Indians don't want to be compared to North Korea, but the caste system will have to go. I'll bet they'd prefer how the Japanese left their Imperial caste system for a modern industrialized society. Given India's modern abilities and the opportunity to make use of free information, I bet the sub-continent can bring about a bloodless revolution without losing face. If the Hindis can't do it for the "untouchables", then they can do it for Mahatma Ghandi. I bet it would make him smile.
6 posted on 10/18/2005 11:33:28 AM PDT by SaltyJoe (A mother's sorrowful heart and personal sacrifice redeems her lost child's soul.)
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Comment #7 Removed by Moderator

To: saradippity; SaltyJoe
I did go to the bookstore to buy some books on the untouchables or Dalit,I asked the clerk for a recommendation and she gave me a blank look. The store carried no books at all on the subject,I pushed and she finally pulled up some books that she thought I could order. More than half of the computer listings were unavailable.

Probably not a very popular topic. However, the Internet is filled with sites and a wealth of information.


8 posted on 10/18/2005 12:14:38 PM PDT by NYer (“Socialism is the religion people get when they lose their religion")
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Comment #9 Removed by Moderator

To: NYer
Who are the real Dalits of India?

October 18, 2005

When we hear that a resolution is to be tabled in the US Congress next month to address the problem of 'caste discrimination and untouchability' in India, one feels like asking Americans if they forgot the horrible treatment they meted out to their Negro slaves!

And look at the condition of their own poor black people today, as seen recently during the New Orleans Katrina cyclone.

United States Congressman Christopher Smith, one of the sponsors of the resolution, said that for all the progress India has made over the years, it was highly regrettable that the lot of these 'untouchables' remained in such a terrible state as they continued to be victimised under the yoke of a shameful caste system.

Has Congressman Christopher Smith ever been to India? Probably not. He no doubt relies on the testimony of Indians like Kancha Ilaiah, founder of the Dalit-Bahujan (Scheduled and Backward Caste) movement, and author of the book Why I Am Not A Hindu.

What would Congressman Christopher Smith find if he bothered to visit India and make an honest assessment?

That true, there are still atrocities committed against Dalits in India, but that there are also a number of atrocities committed against upper caste Indians, including against the Kashmiri Pandits, thousands of them having been butchered (ten of them during the recent earthquake in Kashmir) and 400,000 of them being refugees in their own country.

That Dalits are coming up, thanks to a reservation system put into place more than 40 years, ago, to the extent that India's last President was a Dalit.

That many of the saints and avatars worshipped in India are from lower classes: Maharshi Ved Vyas, who wrote the Mahabharata, which also contains the Bhagavad Gita, was the son of a fisherwoman; Valmiki, once a highway robber, who composed the Ramayana, was also from a fisherman's caste; Chandragupta Maurya of the Maurya dynasty originates from Muria, a tribe which used to collect Peacock (Mor) feathers; and today's Amrita Anandamayi, who hails from Kerala's fishermen caste and has millions of followers, many of them upper caste Indians.

That in a country of 85 per cent Hindus, we find today a Sikh prime minister, when Sikhs represent only 2 per cent of the country's population; a Muslim President, when the Muslims are only 20 per cent and a Christian supreme leader, who rules this country with an iron fist, although she is not elected and holds no post, whereas Christians are only 3 per cent of India.

Who are the real Dalits of India then?

When the British arrived on the subcontinent, they found, as many other invaders had discovered before them, that the biggest stumbling block to a strong grip on India were the Hindus and that they could not govern such a huge country without splitting this community.

They thus used three tools:

1. The Aryan invasion theory, of two civilisations, that of the low caste Dravidians and the high caste Aryans, always pitted against each other -- which has endured, although it is now totally disproved, as it is still today being used by some Indian politicians -- and has been enshrined in all history books, Western, and unfortunately also Indian.

Thus were born wrong 'nationalistic' movements, such as the Dravidian movement against Hindi and the hatred against the much-maligned Brahmins, who actually represent today a minority, which is often underprivileged.

Many Brahmins were chased out of Tamil Nadu in the early sixties. It is also very difficult nowadays for a Brahmin, however qualified, to find a job in the government as many posts are reserved for Dalit and backward castes, even if they are underqualified.

This Aryan invasion theory has also made India look Westwards, instead of taking pride in its past and present achievements. I am a Westerner and a born Christian, but I always wonder why there is such great fascination for Sonia Gandhi, a White-Skinned Westerner.

Is she unconsciously perceived as a true Aryan by the downtrodden Dravidians and a certain fringe of that Indian intelligentsia which is permanently affected by an inferiority complex towards the West? This fake Aryan invasion may even have given a colour fixation to this country, where women will go to extremes to look 'fair.' But isn't black beautiful?

2. The vilifying of the caste system: 'Caste was originally an arrangement for the distribution of functions in society, just as much as class in Europe, but the principle on which this distribution was based was peculiar to India,' wrote Sri Aurobindo.

But the British and Christian missionaries quickly targeted the Adivasis and the Dalits for conversion by telling them: 'You are the first inhabitants of India and you were colonised by the bad Brahmins, during the Aryan invasion. By converting to Christianity, they continued, you will become free from the grip of your masters, who have enslaved you both socially and religiously.'

Thus they set the Dalits and Adivasis against the mainstream of Hindu society and sowed the seeds of an explosive conflict which is ready to blow-up today. Missionaries have also always been advocating covertly a breaking-up of the country.

Kancha Ilaiah has been lobbying hard at the UN so that the Adivasis and Dalits are recognised as 'the original settlers of India.'

Belgium historian Koenraad Elst writes that the missionaries were ultimately all set to trigger a Christian partition in India: 'At the time of Independence, Christian mission centres had dreamed up a plan for a Christian partition in collaboration with the Muslim League. The far Northeast, Chota Nagpur and parts of Kerala were to become Christian states, forming a non-Hindu chain with the Nizam's Hyderabad and with Pakistani Bengal.'

3. The weaning away of the Muslims from the Hindu majority which ended in the Partition of India. The British used to the hilt the existing divide between Hindus and Muslims. The Congress was weak; it accepted what was forced down its throat by Jinnah and Mountbatten, even though many of its leaders, including Nehru, and a few moderate Muslims, disagreed with the principle of partition.

It was also Gandhi's policy of non-violence and gratifying the fanatical Muslim minority, in the hope that it would see the light, which did tremendous harm to India and encouraged Jinnah to harden his demands.

Today the Congress has taken up this dangerous game again, witness the Andhra assembly which just approved a 5 per cent job reservation for Muslims; and Sonia Gandhi wants all other Congress-ruled states to follow Andhra Pradesh in providing Muslims with education and job quotas.

It is a measure of how the British and the missionaries were successful in planting the seeds of dissent, even amongst Indians, that this misinformation endures today in India and finds a sympathetic ear in the US Congress.Francois Gautier

 
http://in.rediff.com/news/2005/oct/18franc.htm

10 posted on 10/18/2005 12:28:32 PM PDT by Gengis Khan (Since light travels faster than sound, people appear bright until u hear them speak.)
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To: Karma1977

Oops you beat me to it!


11 posted on 10/18/2005 12:29:28 PM PDT by Gengis Khan (Since light travels faster than sound, people appear bright until u hear them speak.)
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To: Karma1977; Gengis Khan; NYer
New member since Oct 15, 2005. Welcome to FR.

"the horrible treatment they meted out to their Negro slaves"

This will get you no where fast with an American audience...unless you go to the democratic underground website. Most Americans today didn't even have our ancestors in the country to have owned slaves. Many modern Americans now are so mixed-race that's impossible to tell what "race" we are. The best description is "human" race.

"And look at the condition of their own poor black people today, as seen recently during the New Orleans Katrina cyclone."

Perhaps Gengis Khan knows better the FR attitude concerning the "poor black people" of the Katrina hurricane.

Please look at the reality of Katrina by researching the older articles posted in Free Republic and other conservative sites. The levy was poorly built. Certain engineers warned the authorities while it was being built. The warning went unheeded. Corruption at the local and state level impeded evacuation. The mayor was another weak link (check his skin color) who didn't accept federal help early enough in spite of many warnings. Liberals and socialists try to play the race card against President Bush, Republicans, conservatives, etc. Conservatives don't buy into it. Freepers refuse the same racial arguments. Humans are human no mater what color, religion, economic background, etc.

----
The rest of the article you posted has interesting notes on Indian history. I hope to learn more. Was India a unified nation before England set about conquering her?

BTW, when you mention missionary work by Europeans, were they Protestants looking to divide India against itself? This would be an extremely important detail.

This string was started for a Catholic ping list. Most American Catholics are so "racially" mixed that's it's silly to try to classify any of us by skin or blood type. Please remember too, that by human history's standard, the present "German" Pope is from a "racial" background considered culturally inferior to what were once the ancient Romans. Now he is the Pope of the "Roman" Catholics.

Don't allow someone to play a racial card against Germanic peoples because of Hitler's short reign of terror. Realize that the errors of Nazi fascism professing a racial superiority of blond hair, blue eyed Aryans were led by a non-Aryan who was most likely related to the same Jews he was murdering.

The unifying Element of what you might witness in India is the same being experienced in Africa. Jesus is the One who gathers souls. If Indian history has been scattered by "Christian" missionaries, please check their background. Was it a politically motivated "religion"? I think you'll find a difference between what England sent and what a little nun does on the streets of Calcutta.

The Heavenly banquet is not an invitation to divide or further division among people. The invitation for this feast is for all souls...you and me included.

God Bless you, and please keep feeding us more fascinating information about India!
12 posted on 10/18/2005 2:17:22 PM PDT by SaltyJoe (A mother's sorrowful heart and personal sacrifice redeems her lost child's soul.)
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To: Karma1977
When we hear that a resolution is to be tabled in the US Congress next month to address the problem of 'caste discrimination and untouchability' in India, one feels like asking Americans if they forgot the horrible treatment they meted out to their Negro slaves!

That was around the time the British were finally making you guys quit with the widow-burning and the thugee, right?

it [the Aryan invasion theory] is now totally disproved

=declared politically incorrect.

14 posted on 10/18/2005 3:04:18 PM PDT by A.J.Armitage (http://calvinist-libertarians.blogspot.com/)
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Comment #15 Removed by Moderator

To: SaltyJoe; Karma1977
Francois Gautier (a Frenchman) and Koenraad Elst (a Belgian) are very well known writers in India. In fact they are our conservative pro-Hindu right-wing freelancers.
 
As for the part about "Negro slaves " and "poor black people of the Katrina hurricane", I agree with you and here is an article from the Indian media I posted on FR myself : http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1498193/posts  (thought you might be interested).
But then racism exist in the US only as much as does "castism" exist in India. Most Americans including Freepers wont hesitate to blindly place the libel of "castism" on Hindus and Indians, without the slightest knowledge of Hinduism or the reality in India. In that case you shouldn't be complaining if counter punches are thrown at you because the fact is Indians have been subjected to hate crimes and racial attacks post 9/11. However I would personally dismiss those as stray incidents and not representative of the attitude of the American society.
 
The article of the thread is a malicious and propagandist piece of tripe coming from source that has a reputation for Hindu bashing. In fact it has already been posted earlier. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/1502318/posts
And this is not the first anti-Hindu, anti-India article coming from the same source. In fact there is a deliberate and systematic effort by the "Christian" media to malign Hinduism (an India)over "castism". In fact an anti-India resolution is about to be placed in the US Congress to chide India over "untouchability":  http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1500944/posts  This is not likely to go down well with India.
 
There is a social context to the word "castism" which is completely different from the religious context. A handful of people uses "castism" as a tool to discriminate. Neither Hinduism nor the Indian government approves the practice. The "Dalit" population who are generally poor are easy targets for the Missionaries for proselytization and political manupulation. The Christian churches have created vast literatures of calumny against the Hinduism and have been widely circulating those among the "Dalits." This in many cases has given rise a lot of local Hindu animosity against the Church. In many places Hindus have started viewing Christianity on par with Islam as a religion out to destroy Hinduism.
 
Hindus and Christians have been enjoying a harmonious relationship for over centuries. In fact Christianity came to India (much before it reached Europe) to escape persecution and they found shelter under Hindu rule. That relation is now about to be threatened by "foreign" Missionaries who have a very clear cut political and religious agenda.
 
 
Now to answer your question :
 
Was India a unified nation before England set about conquering her?
YES! Culturally India was united for millennia before the British arrived. Remember Hinduism was not a religion but a culture that stretched from Afghanistan to the Bali (Indonesia).
BTW, when you mention missionary work by Europeans, were they Protestants looking to divide India against itself? This would be an extremely important detail.
I would assume the author is most probably referring to the Catholic Church because the Catholic Church is the most dominant in India.

16 posted on 10/18/2005 4:12:10 PM PDT by Gengis Khan (Since light travels faster than sound, people appear bright until u hear them speak.)
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To: A.J.Armitage
"That was around the time the British were finally making you guys quit with the widow-burning and the thugee, right?"

You should be doing a lot more reading before you post your comments on such issues.

British did not stop "the widow-burning", they perpetuated it until social reformers from within the Hindu community forced the British government to enact laws to prohibit the practice.
17 posted on 10/18/2005 4:19:34 PM PDT by Gengis Khan (Since light travels faster than sound, people appear bright until u hear them speak.)
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To: SaltyJoe
The unifying Element of what you might witness in India is the same being experienced in Africa.
 
The only "unifying Element" in India was and shall always remain Hinduism. Hinduism was born with India and India was born with Hinduism. Remember its a culture that existed for thousands of years before Chiristianity and Islam arrived and will likely outlive both Christianity and Islam. Hinduism (and I am talking about the culture) has immense capacity to absorb different ideas, cultures, people and belief systems. And this is the sole reason why it still survives the onslaught of Christianity,  Islam and atheism.

18 posted on 10/18/2005 4:36:19 PM PDT by Gengis Khan (Since light travels faster than sound, people appear bright until u hear them speak.)
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To: Karma1977
I heartily appreciate your explanation. Please realize that both of my parents come from two different sides of the world (one is a darky and the other is so white that a 40 watt light bulb can burn the skin!). Both were from very ancient pagan religions whose ancestor bowed in fear to many many different gods. Both cultures found safety in the unconditional Love of One True God, the Christian Holy Trinity. The pagan pre-Christian rituals continued, but in the Christian Spirit. Christmas trees, Easter eggs, etc. were all pagan (non-Jewish) in origin.

As old Hindu is, your ancient Indian culture may add even more flavors of celebration than most other former non-Christian cultures combined!

If I pointed to the negative in the article you posted, it's because it runs counter productive to the normal crowd here at FR. Remember too, that we Americans were once a colony that was under the same Imperial Empire that dominated your people. Some bad habits were imported and some were inherent to the vices of human nature (what Christianity calls "original sin"). Human bondage, or slavery, is one of those horrible vices, and both of my families cultures were enslaved peoples who suffered because of both their racial background and religion. But they found freedom in America! Perhaps its now a scientific fact that all living Americans now have lived in a non-slave United States unless they were born before the end of the American Civil War.

God willing, Hindi's will decide their own fate. Please remember that before Christianity, ours is a religion of Jewish origin. Prior to Abraham's fathering 3 religious peoples, he came from a polytheist culture. Before Islamics converted, they too, came from a polytheist people. As you know now, most modern Christian cultures also came from a polytheist culture. Only one Egyptian Pharaoh that I know of tried to develop a "one god" religion, but he failed to move his ruling polytheist clerics and lost power.

It's the Nature of God that is the subject of wonder and contemplation. What makes it a safe conversation from our perspective, is that His Divinity is beyond our mere mortal power and isn't meant to be a source of competition. I hope you agree and your countrymen understand that true followers of Jesus Christ are as nonviolent as the heroic Gandhi.
19 posted on 10/18/2005 4:36:26 PM PDT by SaltyJoe (A mother's sorrowful heart and personal sacrifice redeems her lost child's soul.)
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To: A.J.Armitage

"it [the Aryan invasion theory] is now totally disproved

=declared politically incorrect."

The "invasion" never happened. None of the historical evidences give any indication of an "invasion theory". The Vedas dont mention it. The "Aryas" were possibly indigenous people and the migration (if any) happened from India .......not to India.

The original "Aryan invasion theory" is more of Nazi propaganda rather than solid historical fact.


20 posted on 10/18/2005 4:44:05 PM PDT by Gengis Khan (Since light travels faster than sound, people appear bright until u hear them speak.)
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