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To: NYer

The author says that Mormons believe we are saved by the grace of God alone without works. Which is false. We belive that trhough Christ's atoning for our sins do we find salvation, but with good works as well. To repent means not to repeat the behavior. If I repeat the sin, then I need to repent again, and work hard not ot repeat the sin. The key word being work.
Also if I do not serve my fellow man as Christ taught, then I will not gain salvation by faith alone.
That is where the author is wrong. The source is me. I have been a faithful member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints since I was eight years old.
You know, I really have no problem at all with people of other faiths or their beliefs. I believe that anything that brings one cloer to God is a good thing. I firmly belive that Mother Teresa will get to Heaven on better standing than I will simply becuase of her good works. I try very hard to have respect and understanding of other people's choices of who and how they choose to worship. I also try very hard to respect what they worship. The same goes with one's political and philosophical beliefs as well. I feel sorry for those that feel need to point out inaccuracies of other's beliefs. I am appalled that other members of my faith would engage in such practices. Discussions like these always remind me about anti-mormon protestors outside of the Temple and Conference Center in Salt Lake City. They use foul and hate filled language in the name of our Savior, and I know that depite what anyone believes, our Savior would not approve or condone such behavior.
Normally I avoid reading articles like this on this website because many who profess to be Christian have said some pretty rude, terrible and disrespectful things about my personal beliefs which I hold sacred. Perhaps this is why the monitors shut down these threads after a while.
I hate to get on a soap box, but I just had to get that off of my chest.


45 posted on 10/17/2005 11:24:36 AM PDT by Ragtop (We are the people our parents warned us about)
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To: Ragtop

I, for one do appreciate your getting up on your 'soapbox'...you have pointed out something which I have noticed on so many of the 'religious' threads, which usually always prevents me in ever participating in them...namely, the discussion and conversation so often does not remain a 'friendly' discussion, but quickly downward spirals into a barrage of insults, name-calling, nasty remarks and the like...

Now, I will not identify myself as a Mormon, or a Catholic, or a Baptist, or a member of any organized 'church', as I dont belong to one...instead I am a person, who has gone to various different churches, has read the Bible, and most importantly, I am seeking after the truth as well as I can discern it...

It never helps when a Catholic gets on a post, and insinuates that all Protestants are 'snake handlers', because there exist small groups of protestants who use snakes in their religious services, and it never helps when Protestants call Catholics 'cannibals', because of their belief concerning communion, and it never helps when members of mainstream religions call those who belong to what may appear to be outside of mainstream, as 'cults', and it never helps when members of one church decide that members of another church are simply not Christians...and I have seen all these ideas and worse posted on what are supposed to be religious threads...

I try to read all the religious threads, for information, for enlightenment, for perhaps something that will help me better understand...when I see insults, slurs, airs of superiority, namecalling, and nasty, nasty remarks, thats a sure turnoff...How people can engage in such discourse, ,and then call themselves 'Christians', is really way beyond me...

To me, those who try to keep Christ as a role model, would not engage in such behavior...civil discussions, disageements, points of contention, yes...just being plain rude and nasty, no...But thats just me...


47 posted on 10/17/2005 11:45:08 AM PDT by andysandmikesmom
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To: Ragtop

My apologies, I didn't think about the first couple of beliefs.


90 posted on 10/17/2005 6:47:18 PM PDT by ladyinred (It is all my fault okay?)
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To: Ragtop

Questions all Mormons should ask themselves





1. If Gods are individuals who have passed through mortality and have progressed to Godhood, how has one person of the Trinity (the Holy Spirit) attained Godhood without getting a body? (See Acts 5:3,4)

2. If Gods are individuals who have passed through an earth life to attain Godhood, how is it that one person of the Trinity (Jesus Christ) was God before He received a body or passed through earth life? (Matt. 1:23 and Hebrews 10:5)

3. If the Book of Mormon really contains the fullness of the Gospel, why does it not teach the doctrine of “eternal progression”? (See D&C 20:8,9)

4. God said, “Is there a God beside me? Yea, there is no God; I know not any”. How can there be Gods who are Elohim’s ancestors? Surely an all-knowing God would know this and wouldn’t speak falsehoods. (See Isa. 44:8 and Journal of Discourses Vol. 1, pg. 123)

5. How can any men ever become Gods when the Bible says, “Before me there was no god formed, neither shall there be after me”? (Isaiah 43:10)

6. If Adam is the “only God with whom we have to do”, did Adam create himself? (Journal of Discourses Vol. 1, pg. 50, 51)

7. Joseph Smith stated that without the ordinances and authority of the priesthood no man can see the face of God and live (D & C 84:21, 22). He also said that he saw God in 1820 (Joseph Smith 2:17). Joseph Smith, however, never received any priesthood until 1829 (D&C 13). How did he see God and survive? In which was he in error: his revelation in D & C 84:21, 22 or his experience in the grove?

8. If a spirit is a being without a body (See Luke 24:39), why do Mormons teach that God the Father has a body of flesh and bones? (See John 4:24)

9. If the Father is Elohim and Jesus is Jehovah (as the Mormons teach), how does a Mormon explain Deuteronomy 6:4, which in the Hebrew says, “Hear, O Israel: Jehovah our Elohim is one Jehovah”?

10. If the Book of Mormon contains the fullness of the Gospel, why doesn’t it teach that God was once a man?

11. If Mormonism is the restored church, which is based upon the Bible, why are Mormon leaders so quick to state that the Bible is “translated wrong” when faced with some conflict between the Bible and Mormonism?

12. If Jesus was conceived as a result of a physical union between God and Mary, how was Jesus born of a virgin? (Journal of Discourses Vol. 1, page 50)

13. Why did Christ not return in 1891 as Joseph Smith predicted? (History of the Church, Vol. 2 page 182).

14. Journal of Discourses Vol. 2, page 210 says Jesus was being married to Mary and Martha in Cana. Why then was he INVITED to his own wedding? (John 2:1,2)

15. Why does the Mormon church teach that there is no eternal hell when the Book of Mormon teaches that there is? (I Nephi 14:3, II Ne. 9:16;28: 21-23, Mosiah 3:25, Alma 34:35, Heleman 6:28 and 3:25,26).

16. How can Mormons teach that the repentant thief was not saved when the Book of Mormon states that Paradise is where the righteous go? (Luke 23:43, Alma 40:12, 16)

17. How did Nephi with a few men on a new continent build a temple like Solomon’s while Solomon needed 163,300 workmen and seven years to build his temple? (See I Kings 5:13-18 and II Nephi 5:15-17)

18. If the book of Mormon is true, why hasn’t a valid geography been established for the book?

19. Why was Joseph Smith still preaching against polygamy in October 1843 after he got his revelation in July 1843 commanding the practice of polygamy? (D & C 132; and History of the Church Vol. 6, page 46, or Teachings of the Prophet, page 324)

20. If Lehi left Jerusalem before 600 B.C., how did he learn about synagogues? (See II Nephi 26:26)

21. If the Book of Mormon is true, why do Indians fail to become white when they become Mormons? (II Nephi 30:6 – prior to 1981 revision)

22. What kind of chariots did the Nephites have in 90 B.C. some 1500 years before the introduction of the wheel on the Western Hemisphere? (Alma 18:9)

23. How do Mormons account for the word “church” in the Book of Mormon, about 600 B.C., which was centuries before the beginning of the Church on the day of Pentecost? (I Nephi 4:26)

24. How do Mormons account for the italicized words in the King James Version (indicating their absence in the Hebrew and Greek) being found in the Book of Mormon? (A comparison of Mosiah 14 and Isaiah 53 will provide at least 13 examples)

25. How did the French word “adieu” get into the Book of Mormon? (Jacob 7:27)

26. Was it right or wrong for Solomon to have many wives? (See Jacob 2:24; D & C 132:38,39) Which is it?

27. If polygamy was a provision for increasing population rapidly, why did God give Adam only one wife?

28. D&C 129:4, 5 says, “When a messenger comes saying he has a message from God, offer him your hand and request him to shake hands with you. If he be an angel he will do so, and you will feel his hand.” How can this test distinguish between an angel of God and a Jehovah’s Witness missionary…or a Mormon Elder.

29. If Joseph Smith was a true prophet, why did he fail to realize that “Elias” is the N.T. form of the name “Elijah”? (D & C 110:12,13 and 1 Kings 17:1 and James 5:17) How could Elijah (Elias) have appeared to Joseph Smith in the Kirkland Temple as two different people?

30. If children have no sins until they are eight years old, why are they baptized at age eight to wash away non-existent sins? (See Moroni 8:8)

31. How could the Garden of Eden have been in Missouri when the Pearl of Great Price declares that it was in the vicinity of Assyria and had the Euphrates and Hiddekel Rivers in it? (See P of GP Moses 3:14 and D&C 116 and 117; Genesis 2:8-15)

32. Brigham Young said, “The only men who become Gods, even the Sons of God, are those who enter into polygamy”. (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 11, page 269) Why did the Mormons yield to the pressure of the government and stop practicing polygamy?

33. Heber C. Kimball stated, “We are th people of Deseret, she shall be no more Utah: we will have our own name”. Why did this prophecy fail? (J of D. Vol. 5, page 161)

34. How did Joseph Smith carry home the golden plates of the Book of Mormon, and how did the witnesses lift them so easily? (They weighted about 230 lbs. Gold, with a density of 19.3 weighs 1204.7 lbs. Per cubic foot. The plates were 7” x 8” by about 6”. See Articles of Faith, by Talmage, page 262, 34th Ed.)

35. When Christ died, did darkness cover the land for three days of for three hours? (See Luke 23:44 and III Nephi 8:19, 23)

36. If the Book of Mormon was translated by the gift and power of God, why have the Mormons changed it? (There have been over 3,000 changes in the Book of Mormon, exclusive of punctuation changes)

37. If God speaks through a prophet, why do Mormons vote on whether or not to receive and authorize it?

38. It has been established that the “Sensen” manuscript was simply a common Egyptian burial papyrus. Why do the Mormons still accept the Book of Abraham which was translated from that manuscript?

39. Why is it that no other writings have been found in the language of “Reformed Egyptian”, the supposed language of the Book of Mormon plates? Is there evidence that such a language really existed?

40. Joseph Smith said that there are men living on the moon who dress like Quakers and live to be nearly 1000 years old. Since he was wrong about the moon, is it safe to trust him regarding the way to heaven? (See The Young Woman’s Journal, Vol 3, pages 263, 264.)

41. Why do Mormons not study Hebrew and Greek so that they can intelligently discuss the accuracy of the translation of the Bible?

42. Joseph Smith prepared fourteen Articles of Faith. Why has the original No. 11 been omitted?

43. According to Hebrews 7:24, the Melchizedek Priesthood is not transferable. Why do Mormons pass it from one to another?

44. If Mormonism came as a revelation from God, why are the Mormon Temple Oaths almost identical to the oaths of the Masonic Lodge?

45. Why did the Nauvoo House not stand forever and ever? (D&C 124:56-60)

46. If genealogies are important, why does the New Testament tell Christians to avoid them? (I Timothy 1:4; Titus 3:9)

47. The Bible says, “The blood of Jesus Christ cleanseth from all sin”. Why did Brigham Young say that there are some sins which can be atoned for only by the shedding of ones own blood.

48. God rejected the fig leaf aprons which Adam and Eve made. Why do Mormons memorialize the fall by using fig leaf aprons? (Gen. 3:21)

49. Why do Mormons insist that Ezekiel 37:15-22 is about two books instead of about two kingdoms as god Himself explained in verse 22?

50. If Acts 3:20, 21 is a prophecy about the restoration of Mormonism, why didn’t Jesus return in 1830?

51. Revelation 14:6,7 is part of the body of prophecy about the future Great Tribulation. How could that passage have been fulfilled by Moroni in 1830?

52. In light of Ezekiel 28:13-15 and Hebrews 1:5, how can Satan and Jesus be brothers (as the Mormons teach)? (note: Satan was created)

53. If no person ever receives the Holy Spirit before baptism or without the laying on of hands, how does a Mormon explain the case of Cornelius? (See Acts 10:44-47)

54. If baptism for the dead was a Christian ceremony, why did Paul use the pronoun “they” rather than “we” or “ye”? Why did he exclude himself and other Christians when referring to it? (I Cor. 15:29)

55. Since the Bible says that a Bishop should be the husband of one wife, how can Mormons claim that polygamy is proper for New Testament Christians? (I Timothy 3:2)

56. Why does the Mormon church teach that the broad way leads to the Terrestrial Heaven when Jesus taught that it leads to destruction? (Matthew 7:13, 14)

57.


140 posted on 10/19/2005 8:37:04 PM PDT by apackof2 (There's two theories to arguin' with a woman. Neither one works. Will Rogers)
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To: Ragtop

I'm a Catholic and I agree with you.


194 posted on 10/23/2005 7:07:20 PM PDT by tiki
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To: Ragtop
To repent means not to repeat the behavior. If I repeat the sin, then I need to repent again, and work hard not ot repeat the sin.

Boy, you're really up a creek, here. The statement above is not what one of your former president/prophets has written. Kimball, in his book, The Miracle of Forgiveness, clearly states that if you commit a sin over again then you have never really repented of the sin in the first place. So, according to the authority of general authorities, any repetitive sin is only indicative that you never got to "first base" to begin with; if you never get to first base, then you cannot simply go back & tag up to try to advance at some future point.

Just think of some of the most obvious sins in the minds of the avg. man. Now apply Kimball's standard to that and you can see what I mean about being up a creek.

197 posted on 11/01/2005 9:04:00 AM PST by Colofornian
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