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To: Logophile
I know the answers to these questions even though you had to research the site instead of being able to answer them yourself. But I understand. Mormonism is maize and even those in top leadership cannot answer all questions of doctrine

Basically the bottom is this;

Is Joseph Smith really a prophet of God or not?
How do we know if some is a true or false prophet of God?

Deuteronomy 18

20But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in my name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die. 21And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken? 22When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, but the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.

Also

The fulfillment of a prophecy cannot be delayed long. "They ... say, The vision that he seeth is for many days to come, and he prophesieth of the times that are far off. Therefore say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God: There shall none of my words be prolonged any more, but the word which I have spoken shall be done, saith the Lord God." Ezek 12:21-28

Can even a "true" prophet have false revelations? Even Joseph Smith had to admit that some of his "revelations" might be of man or even of the devil. Comp Hist 1:165. This is contradictory in concept to the Deuteronomy 18:22 test, which says that the failure of the test indicates that the prophet is false. Joseph Smith here implies that the prophecy may be false, but the prophet himself is apparently still a prophet. One might ask then, what good is a prophet? Hyrum Smith, who was also a "prophet," on Nov 1, 1831, commented about prophecy and said that "if you hit once in 10 times, that is alright." [quoted by Abraham O. Smoot in 1868 at the Provo School of the Prophets] This also is a contradiction of Deut 18:22. Note that the prophecies and promises which are in the D&C "shall all be fulfilled." If even one remains unfulfilled, then this also is a false prophecy. D&C 1:37

A few of Joseph Smith’s unfilfilled prophecies;

Feb 14, 1835. HC 2:182. Joseph Smith preached that the coming of the Lord would be in 56 years (i.e., about 1891). This prophecy also occurs in his diary for April 6, 1843 and HC 5:336. See also D&C 130:14-17. Joseph Smith prophesies that "there of those of the rising generation who shall not taste death till Christ comes." He prophesies "in the name of the Lord God - let it be written: that the Son of Man will not come in the heavens till I am 85 years old, 48 years hence or about 1890." (The official historians have deleted the last phrase, beginning with "48 years" from the church history, but it is contained in the original diary.) The version in D&C 130 is phrased negatively, i.e., Christ will not come before 1890. It is also made conditional on Joseph Smith living to the age of 85. Joseph Smith says (v 16) that it might merely mean that if he lives to 85 he will go where Christ is, and therefore see his face. But that interpretation would not make sense if the revelation is in response to Joseph Smith's inquiry about the time of the second coming (v 14).

FULFILLMENT: The second coming did not occur about 1891, and the Church does not claim that it did. Nor has it occurred since. Joseph Smith did not live to be 85 years old. God must have known that he would not. Why would God make a revelation conditional upon an event which he knew would never happen? NATIONS SHALL TREMBLE: Nov 3, 1831. D&C 133:42 "...all nations shall tremble at thy presence."

FULFILLMENT: No one can claim that all nations tremble at the presence of the Mormons.

NEW YORK WILL BE DESTROYED: Sept 22-23, 1832. D&C 84:114-115. New York, Albany and Boston will be destroyed if they reject the gospel. The "hour of their judgment is nigh..."

FULFILLMENT: Newell K. Whitney and Joseph Smith went to New York, Albany, and Boston and preached there. These cities did not accept the gospel. They have not been destroyed.

THE END OF ALL NATIONS: Dec 25, 1832. D&C 87. Prophecy of the rebellion of South Carolina, war between the states. The South will call on Great Britain for aid, and as a result war will be poured out upon all nations; slaves will revolt; the inhabitants of the earth shall mourn; famine, plague, earthquake, thunder, lightning, and a full end of all nations will result.

FULFILLMENT: This prophecy is the one most often cited by Mormons to prove Joseph Smith's prophetic power. However, most Mormons are unaware of the political situation in America at the time it was made. In November 1832 South Carolina had declared its power to "nullify" any federal act, and President Jackson was prepared to go to war to enforce federal authority. Most people expected war. Thus the "prophecy" did no more than reflect commonly held opinion. Even when the South did finally revolt, in 1861, although Great Britain came to its assistance, other elements of the prophecy were not fulfilled: slaves did not rise up, war was not poured out upon all nations, there was no world- wide famine, plague, earthquake, etc., and there was no resulting "end of all nations." Morris, PJS, contends that World War I, the associated famines, the 1918 influenza epidemic, fulfill this prophecy. But these are not as a result of the American Civil War. (see Chron JS, Dec 1832) Not even Morris claims that there were earthquakes because of it.

KIRTLAND'S MORMON BANK WILL PROSPER: Jan 1837. LDS Mess & Adv. 3:443 Joseph Smith says it is "wisdom and according to the mind of the Holy Spirit" that the saints should invest in the Kirtland Safety Society. Wilford Woodruff's journal Jan 6, 1837, records that Joseph Smith declared "that he [Joseph Smith] had received that morning the word of the Lord upon the subject of the Kirtland Safety Society," and that "if we would give heed to the commandments the Lord had given this morning all would be well." [cited in Tanner, MSR 531] John F. Boynton, apostle, said that he understood that the bank was established because it was the will of God (HC 2:509-510) Joseph Smith prophesied that like Aaron's rod the bank would swallow up other banks "and grow and flourish ... and survive when all others should be laid in ruins." Zion's Watchman March 24, 1838 [cited in Brodie p 195]

FULFILLMENT: The Kirtland Safety Society Bank, renamed the Anti- Banking Company, was organized Nov 2, 1836. It failed to receive a charter from the state, and Joseph Smith and S. Rigdon were convicted and fined $1000 for illegal banking. The bank failed miserably. Those who had invested in it lost their investment. (Comp Hist 1:401-402)

May I suggest;

Losing a Lost Tribe: Native Americans, DNA, and the Mormon Church by Simon G. Southerton (DNA scientist, former Mormon bishop), Signature Books, 2004

Mormonism: Shadow or Reality by Gerald and Sandra Tanner, 5th edition, Utah Lighthouse Ministry, 1987, Salt Lake City. The Tanners have done extensive research on early Mormon history and made many rare publications available by publishing photocopies of them at a low price. Sandra, is a great-great-granddaughter of Brigham Young. And both her and her husband were born into Mormonism.

No Man Knows My History: The Life of Joseph Smith by Fawn M. Brodie, 2nd ed., Knopf, New York, 1993. The most authoritative biography of Joseph Smith. Brodie is a well recognized historian.

Farewell to Eden: Coming to Terms With Mormonism and Science by Duwayne R. Anderson, Authorhouse, 2003 - a scientist and former Mormon examines Mormonism's scientific claims

An American Prophet's Record: The Diaries and Journals of Joseph Smith (2nd ed) (Paperback) on Amazon

Oh and the Bible

142 posted on 10/20/2005 4:53:37 PM PDT by apackof2 (There's two theories to arguin' with a woman. Neither one works. Will Rogers)
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To: apackof2
I know the answers to these questions even though you had to research the site instead of being able to answer them yourself. But I understand. Mormonism is maize and even those in top leadership cannot answer all questions of doctrine

Perhaps I misunderstood you. You had asked, "Does the official site address or answer these questions?" I showed you that most of the questions that you raised are addressed on the official site, and the rest have been dealt with elsewhere.

Now you say that my response indicates I could not answer the questions myself, because "Mormonism is a maize [sic]." That strikes me as a non sequitur.

The questions you posted are not new. They have been asked and answered many, many times before. It would be nice if the anti-Mormons would retire some of these stale old chestnuts and try something new. But that would be to admit that the Mormons might occasionally know what they are talking about.

I will conclude with a point I made before: When someone wants to know the truth about what the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints teaches, it pays to go to the source. Study what the Church actually says, then ask God whether it be right. If you ask in faith, with true intent, God will answer you.

144 posted on 10/20/2005 8:08:45 PM PDT by Logophile
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