Posted on 10/12/2005 5:17:24 PM PDT by sionnsar
I mean it. Its a good questions, because he seems to believe in at least two LDS doctrines. We know that he believes in Continuing Revelation. Thats how he explains his novel teaching on sexuality. It isnt my idea, he says, its the Holy Spirit speaking to us. This is a nifty tactic, of course, because it not only gets Our Lord the Spirit behind the innovation, but declares that anyone who disagrees with the innovation isnt listening to the Spirit, and that would be bad.
Wait: theres more. But first a little digression.
I mean it. Its a good questions, because he seems to believe in at least two LDS doctrines. We know that he believes in Continuing Revelation. Thats how he explains his novel teaching on sexuality. It isnt my idea, he says, its the Holy Spirit speaking to us. This is a nifty tactic, of course, because it not only gets Our Lord the Spirit behind the innovation, but declares that anyone who disagrees with the innovation isnt listening to the Spirit, and that would be bad.
Wait: theres more. But first a little digression.
Between 1810 and 1830 wagon loads of cousins left the areas around Hoosick, New York and North Kingston, RI for the Midwest. Most came to Illinois. Some diverted into Michigan, and a few more to Wisconsin. They were all looking for land, and they were all abolitionists. The prestatehood arrivals played a part in making sure that Illinois came into the Union as a free state. At least one of them seems to have run a station on the Underground Railway.
When the war came, quite a few served in the Union Army at various times. My great-great-grandfather raised and equipped a rifle company that was later absorbed into one of the regular Pennsylvania regiments. He served as for at least a year. His daughter, my great grandmother, was a little girl then. His actions were not a young mans lark, but serious actions coming out of serious commitment. Later, he helped to found and endow an Episcopal parish in Philadelphia, and served as senior warden for decades. Heres a picture of him in uniform,
and in old age
(One of these days Ill find out how my farm-boy, Baptist great grandfather met his mildly well to do, Episcopalian Rebecca. I know it was when he was in medical school in Philadelphia, but I dont know how. She didnt have any brothers who might have known Great Grandad, and opportunities for meeting and courtship were a bit more restricted in 1870 then they are now).
There were deaths in that generation: Antietem, Shiloh, Andersonville. The survivors came home, farmed their land, took their part in local government (Roads Commissioners, School Boards), and voted Republican. Thats what the veterans of that war did.
The reparations movement has always seemed shaky to me because the ancestors of a lot of modern Americans were never involved in slavery, or actively fought it. Should long established Chinese Americans (whose ancestors had a fairly rough time of it themselves) be forced to contribute to a reparations pool? What about people whose ancestors came here after 1863? What about those whose ancestors risked their lives, shed their blood, to end slavery? Just doesnt seem well thought through.
Not surprisingly, Frank Griswold and his sideboys and girls are getting behind this whole reparations thing. Of course, no Episcopalian has owned a slave for a while. You can probably find more Episcopalians who think that women are inferior than who think that black people are. But Frank is putting himself behind a movement to repent of the Episcopal Churchs involvement in slavery.
Of course, you cant repent of sin you havent committed. Or can you? Another important LDS teaching involves getting baptized (in the LDS fashion) on behalf of ancestors, substituting your action for theirs since they lived before the angel Moroni showed Joseph Smith the golden plates. In Franks theology, he is suggesting to modern Episcopalians, themselves innocent of the sin of slavery, repent on behalf of Episcopalians long dead who didnt have the advantage of this new revelation.
So we have continuing revelation and substitutional repentance, just for starters. Youve got to wonder what else is rattling around in Frank's head. I begin to worry that there's plenty of room.
A tug o the forelock to Christopher Johnson, who reads Franks utterance so the rest of us dont have to.
Nah, I would say he's a 'moron.'
Like the author, my ancestors fought for the Union, and I see no need to pay a cent in reparations for slavery.
If you can show me someone alive today who was legally a slave in the United States, I'll be happy to send him a personal gift.
Other than that, the whole concept is ZOT.
One of my great-great-grandfathers died in the Civil War while fighting to free the slaves. His wife and young daughter were left in poverty and became dependent upon the local church (Congregational) for their support. They ended up working as servants for the minister's family.
If we have reparations I assume I will be able to put in my claim also. Or at least I ought to be able to demand that none of them come out of my pocket.
I'll introduce you to my boss and you can make your own decision but I think you owe me a gift. :)
Interesting postulation. I had not thought of the connection until now.
If the shoe fits...
Hey - my ancestors came here from Ireland AFTER the War of Northern Aggression! Come to think of it, they were pretty much "runaway slaves" from the Brits. Wonder if I can get the COE to shell out some cash?
**reparations for slavery.**
Reparations were paid in blood on a hundred battlefields.
It might be a spirit but I kinda doubt it's the Holy Spirit.
I understand what the author is saying here but, as a minor point, Mormons don't believe in "substitutional repentance". Mormons believe that they might help someone who has gone ahead fulfill the commandments of John 3:5, "Except a man be born of the water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter the Kingdom of God." Mormons are substituting themselves for the water baptism but the Spirit part, the repentance, is entirely up to the one who has gone on. Mormons believe that those who died without knowing the law of John 3:5 have a chance to learn the gospel in the hereafter and make a decision there on whether to accept it. Just for your information.
Why don't you describe some of Griswold's teachings and beliefs, and I'll tell you how un-Mormon they are. As a Mormon, I'm not aware of what he teaches.
I'm afraid you have mischaracterized the LDS practice of proxy baptisms.
LOL! Wage-slavery doesn't count.
National Lampoons: The Griswalds Mormon Vacation?
Collective guilt is a leftist idea.
"O God, ease our suffering in this, our moment of great dispair. Yea, admit this kind and decent woman into thy arms of thine heavenly area, up there. And Moab, he lay us upon the band of the Canaanites, and yea, though the Hindus speak of karma, I implore you: give her a break."
"Clark!"
"Honey, I'm not an ordained minister; I'm doing my best. ... "
Suggest you click through to the blog and place your requests with the author who wrote the piece above.
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