Posted on 10/05/2005 11:05:11 PM PDT by Salvation
Catholics, are you currently in a Bible Study group?
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Very interesting comments from Ratzinger. Ping!
Pope Discovers Principle of Sola Scriptura!
Hmmmm......
Or perhaps Prima Scriptura, or Nulla Contra Scripturam (feel free to correct my Latin). Still, a good thing.
I knew right up front, this Ratzinger guy was cool. Now he's proving it.
It is good news. And miles better than the FR Roman Catholic rant the day before yesterday about: "Throwing away their bibles with the catholic bishops of England" in favor of using Catechisms and Missives as in Pre-1962 pre-Vatican II Catholicism.
Now if Pope could say biblical spirituality is based upon the realization of biblical salvation aka the atonement of Christ, in his once and for all sacrifice for the sins of the world, and our confessions of our sins to Him as our high priest and scarifice --- then we'd hit the jackpot.
But this is no small step.
Now in truth a bunch of Catholics on FR hate all the Popes since vatican II and concider them betrayers of the religion. -- One of them even gave a link to the most anti-vatican II web site I have ever seen. Basicly the site called all of them anti-christs. And charged them with sins of fellowshipping with Jews, Greek Orthodox, the Dali Lama, and Muslims.
These guys openly wish for the days of he catholic church killing heretics, jews, muslims and other unbeleivers. Their words seem to testify to the authenticity of "Foxes Book of Martyrs" and they seem to openly admit that the spanish inquisition is one of the church's legacys.
And its seems to me that by refering to this man continually as Ratzinger instead of Pope Benedict some of the FR "Faithful" seem to be showing their disrespect and disdane for this man.
And It appears also that regardless of the reforms that have been made since 1962 the majority of those who I have known that are roman catholic's beleive what they want to beleve anyway. So I doubt there will be any repentance on FR for what was said the last few days belittling the word of God and elevating catechisms and the writings of thrologians above it. And I doubt that catholics going to show up in droves to bible studies to learn "spirituality" based on the word of God.
However I still give this pope high marks for saying waht he said and I appreaciate you sending me this post or else I would have missed what he said.
Lord bless you brother.
Keep seeing Him and Keep Reading his word and in due time you will hit critical mass.
I can think of no better remedy for such arrogance than a working knowledge of the Bible.
A "Supreme Court" cut adrift from its "Constitution" is a recipe for anarchy.
This is a momentous development.
Would you be kind enough to define these terms?
Sure, and if anyone out there knows Latin, feel free to correct my grammar, too:
Prima Scriptura = Scripture First
Nulla Contra Scripturam = Nothing Contrary to Scripture
Sola Scriptura (Scripture Alone), rules out the possiblity of retaining traditions and practices that do not appear in the Bible but are not contrary to it. (As to which those are, that's a long thorny debate.) Of course the Reformers never really meant "Sola Scriptura" in that sense, but confusion has since arisen.
Bump!
Yes, I've encountered this too, and was horrified. I didn't expect the Spanish Inquisition....
And its seems to me that by refering to this man continually as Ratzinger instead of Pope Benedict some of the FR "Faithful" seem to be showing their disrespect and disdane for this man.
Not in my case - I like the guy. Perhaps other freepers who call him Ratzinger, do so with that motive.
And Pope Benedict in the speech said exactly that. The disease in the church is identical to the disease in the supreme court and their members going past the constitution as myths or ancient history in favor or modern psycho-babble or cathchisms writen by european lawmakers or comentaries written by the world court.
The disease in the church that was spoken a dozen or more times two days ago that the Bible is "inerrant but not literally" true is the same arguement liberal use about the constitution and the founding fathers.
One FR Catholic remaked how it was scarry that anone would beleive the bible was literal -- the same comment is made every day by liberals concerning people who literally believe the constitution.
IF the constitution was only written 230 years ago and people are so messed up and confused as to its meaning what do you think it will be like 1800 from now?
The single greatest thing that could be dome for all catholics and protestants is that all of their books about the bible all their comentaries and theologies would be burned.
Faced with the word of God alone everyone would have to seek Him for guidance instead of a cadre of dead men. And oddly enought they would discover the truth of the word of God.
I'm impressed by your remarks. -- You seem to grasp the situation well, and you even drew a comparision with it and the constitution few have been able to see any relation between what goes on in the church and the world. The church is made up of mortal men from the world, so they as strange as it may seem act and do worldly things. So as perversion comes down the pike like divorce and homosexuality it eventually shows up in the church sometimes a decade or two later, but it shows up.
Lord bless you too!
Good stuff, S!
"Catholics, are you currently in a Bible Study group?"
We have a weekly Bible Study group at our Orthodox parish! :)
Why bother???
How can a Catholic that believes in Papal infallibility but not in the inerrancy of the bible choose the bible over the rules and thoughts of Men ordained of the church.
They do not believe the bible is accurate!
Read this article.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0%2C%2C13509-1811332%2C00.html
THE hierarchy of the Roman Catholic Church has published a teaching document instructing the faithful that some parts of the Bible are not actually true.
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The Catholic bishops of England, Wales and Scotland are warning their five million worshippers, as well as any others drawn to the study of scripture, that they should not expect “total accuracy” from the Bible.
“We should not expect to find in Scripture full scientific accuracy or complete historical precision,” they say in The Gift of Scripture.
The document is timely, coming as it does amid the rise of the religious Right, in particular in the US.
Some Christians want a literal interpretation of the story of creation, as told in Genesis, taught alongside Darwin’s theory of evolution in schools, believing “intelligent design” to be an equally plausible theory of how the world began.
But the first 11 chapters of Genesis, in which two different and at times conflicting stories of creation are told, are among those that this country’s Catholic bishops insist cannot be “historical”. At most, they say, they may contain “historical traces”.
The document shows how far the Catholic Church has come since the 17th century, when Galileo was condemned as a heretic for flouting a near-universal belief in the divine inspiration of the Bible by advocating the Copernican view of the solar system. Only a century ago, Pope Pius X condemned Modernist Catholic scholars who adapted historical-critical methods of analysing ancient literature to the Bible.
In the document, the bishops acknowledge their debt to biblical scholars. They say the Bible must be approached in the knowledge that it is “God’s word expressed in human language” and that proper acknowledgement should be given both to the word of God and its human dimensions.
They say the Church must offer the gospel in ways “appropriate to changing times, intelligible and attractive to our contemporaries”.
The Bible is true in passages relating to human salvation, they say, but continue: “We should not expect total accuracy from the Bible in other, secular matters.”
They go on to condemn fundamentalism for its “intransigent intolerance” and to warn of “significant dangers” involved in a fundamentalist approach.
“Such an approach is dangerous, for example, when people of one nation or group see in the Bible a mandate for their own superiority, and even consider themselves permitted by the Bible to use violence against others.”
Of the notorious anti-Jewish curse in Matthew 27:25, “His blood be on us and on our children”, a passage used to justify centuries of anti-Semitism, the bishops say these and other words must never be used again as a pretext to treat Jewish people with contempt. Describing this passage as an example of dramatic exaggeration, the bishops say they have had “tragic consequences” in encouraging hatred and persecution. “The attitudes and language of first-century quarrels between Jews and Jewish Christians should never again be emulated in relations between Jews and Christians.”
As examples of passages not to be taken literally, the bishops cite the early chapters of Genesis, comparing them with early creation legends from other cultures, especially from the ancient East. The bishops say it is clear that the primary purpose of these chapters was to provide religious teaching and that they could not be described as historical writing.
Similarly, they refute the apocalyptic prophecies of Revelation, the last book of the Christian Bible, in which the writer describes the work of the risen Jesus, the death of the Beast and the wedding feast of Christ the Lamb.
The bishops say: “Such symbolic language must be respected for what it is, and is not to be interpreted literally. We should not expect to discover in this book details about the end of the world, about how many will be saved and about when the end will come.”
In their foreword to the teaching document, the two most senior Catholics of the land, Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O’Connor, Archbishop of Westminster, and Cardinal Keith O’Brien, Archbishop of St Andrew’s and Edinburgh, explain its context.
They say people today are searching for what is worthwhile, what has real value, what can be trusted and what is really true.
The new teaching has been issued as part of the 40th anniversary celebrations of Dei Verbum, the Second Vatican Council document explaining the place of Scripture in revelation. In the past 40 years, Catholics have learnt more than ever before to cherish the Bible. “We have rediscovered the Bible as a precious treasure, both ancient and ever new.”
A Christian charity is sending a film about the Christmas story to every primary school in Britain after hearing of a young boy who asked his teacher why Mary and Joseph had named their baby after a swear word. The Breakout Trust raised £200,000 to make the 30-minute animated film, It’s a Boy. Steve Legg, head of the charity, said: “There are over 12 million children in the UK and only 756,000 of them go to church regularly.
That leaves a staggering number who are probably not receiving basic Christian teaching.”
BELIEVE IT OR NOT
UNTRUE
Genesis ii, 21-22
So the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and while he slept he took one of his ribs and closed up its place with flesh; and the rib which the Lord God had taken from the man he made into a woman and brought her to the man
Genesis iii, 16
God said to the woman [after she was beguiled by the serpent]: “I will greatly multiply your pain in childbearing; in pain you shall bring forth children, yet your desire shall be for your husband, and he shall rule over you.”
Matthew xxvii, 25
The words of the crowd: “His blood be on us and on our children.”
Revelation xix,20
And the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who in its presence had worked the signs by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshipped its image. These two were thrown alive into the lake of fire that burns with brimstone.”
TRUE
Exodus iii, 14
God reveals himself to Moses as: “I am who I am.”
Leviticus xxvi,12
“I will be your God, and you shall be my people.”
Exodus xx,1-17
The Ten Commandments
Matthew v,7
The Sermon on the Mount
Mark viii,29
Peter declares Jesus to be the Christ
Luke i
The Virgin Birth
John xx,28
Proof of bodily resurrection
JOIN THE DEBATE
www.timesonline.co.uk/debate
Nope. For me, the 'study' part of that phrase has some unfortunate connotations. As in people telling me Matthew 'put words' in Jesus' mouth because of his intended audience. Jesus didn't actually say that, you see.
But I read it every day alone and in groups and I believe God speaks directly to us in the words of Scripture. Just like the Church teaches us.
I would prefer a nice Lectio Divina group. But, as the Pope points out, those are few and far between.
I think we have some comments here based on the assumption that Pope Benedict is propounding some 'new' teaching.
I think what he is saying is our problem is that some do not adhere to what the Church has always taught. And some have no idea what the Church actually teaches.
The good news is that most towns have more than a single Catholic parish. If your's does not stress the Bible, then you can likely find one that does!
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