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To: NYer
No ages are specified but one can conclude by this statement that the acceptance of homosexuals into the Jesuit order predates VCII.

It definitely does, but I suspect that far fewer of them acted on their inclinations, and furthermore, they were not self-defined as "gays" at the time of their application to or acceptance into their orders (which from what I can recall, made real efforts to weed out homosexual candidates, simply because of the danger they posed in an all-male environment).

One of the reasons for the dramatic increase after VatII was the sudden surge in the secular world in people "coming out" - that is, men who may have been vaguely attracted to men suddenly decided they had to act on it and announce to the world that they were gay, asexual people decided that it meant that they were really gay, and men who defined themselves as homosexuals but didn't act on it (that is, they were under vows) suddenly decided that they were being stifled and they had the right to carry out their homosexual activities with no apologies to anybody. This was tied to all sorts of foolish but aggressive "liberation movements" after 1968.

VatII didn't cause this, although it weaked Church discipline and even doctrine to the point that there was no effective way of opposing and controlling the bizarre currents that swept into the Church from the secular world. I think BXVI is trying to reconstruct the Church as the bulwark and barrier against the insane and destructive fads and even politically imposed policies of the modern world.

It might have been easier if we had stayed true to tradition and not let these things through the infamous "open windows" in the first place, but at last some attempt is being made to sweep the place out and close the windows now, before more get in...

6 posted on 10/01/2005 6:53:53 AM PDT by livius
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To: livius

I believe if you type the title "The Repentant Psychologist" into your Web Browser's search window and hit enter you will come up with an article that will answer a lot of your questions'.

This secular, liberal movement started much earlier around 1962 or a little earlier than that. Vat II had a lot to do with with the move towards "Modernism". There was an earlier movement into "Modernism" in the late nineteenth century. I have an article on that and will send it or perhaps post it may be better.

I am so very happy and pleased theat BXVI is doing something about the Modernist Revolution within the church that overtook Vat II and made it into something it was never meant to be.

Having grown up during that period it was to be a change the accepted music for th echurch, some of the hymns from the Evangelical church and not very musch more than that. Certainly no change in the traditional Latin Tridentine Mass. or any of the secular trash we see today.

I can't wait until this Pope puts the hammer down on these Rogue Bishops and priests whoo have descrated the Catholic Church and Religion. This house cleaning and purge will cause the ranks of the priesthoos to begin to swell.


9 posted on 10/01/2005 7:29:25 AM PDT by 26lemoncharlie ('Cuntas haereses tu sola interemisti in universo mundo!')
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To: livius
One of the reasons for the dramatic increase after VatII was the sudden surge in the secular world in people "coming out" - that is, men who may have been vaguely attracted to men suddenly decided they had to act on it and announce to the world that they were gay, asexual people decided that it meant that they were really gay, and men who defined themselves as homosexuals but didn't act on it (that is, they were under vows) suddenly decided that they were being stifled and they had the right to carry out their homosexual activities with no apologies to anybody. This was tied to all sorts of foolish but aggressive "liberation movements" after 1968.

In the late 60s, when the US was growing and prospering, an Italian immigrant friend made a comment that caught me totally off guard. He said: "In your lifetime, you will see the collapse of the US." He then went on to qualify his statement. Educated in Italy during the 50s, middle school students learned Latin and Greek while studying the Roman and Greek Empires. He pointed to the collapse of both and showed how it began with the rise of feminism, followed immediately by the rise of homosexuals to positions of power. Another aspect that led to their collapse, I read later, was the increase of litigation brought on by too many lawyers. This was back in the 60s! Look at where we are right now. His comment is near prophetic.

VatII didn't cause this, although it weaked Church discipline and even doctrine to the point that there was no effective way of opposing and controlling the bizarre currents that swept into the Church from the secular world. I think BXVI is trying to reconstruct the Church as the bulwark and barrier against the insane and destructive fads and even politically imposed policies of the modern world.

Brilliant commentary and absolutely correct! Thank you for posting it.

32 posted on 10/01/2005 2:54:02 PM PDT by NYer
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