[Revelation 911]

77% of the evangelicals today believe that human beings are basically good and 84%

Im considered an "evangelical" (by todays definition) and I consider everyone who has not repented "dead" in thier trespass

of these conservative Protestants believe that in salvation "God helps those who help themselves"

Matthew 7:8 For everyone who asks receives; he who seeks finds; and to him who knocks, the door will be opened.

while it's incomplete doctrine, the argument could be made that "asking" is "helping themselves".....when in actuality, you and i know - and with a complete reading and understandinof the verse that it is God who transforms

I think pelagianism occurs naturally in the new believers walk until they can comprehend the mechanism of grace

The heresy is continuing in the path of man- centeredness, be it humanism, or universalism and ignoring the component of grace in the conversion/salvation equation

[Gamecock]

Im considered an "evangelical" (by todays definition) and I consider everyone who has not repented "dead" in thier trespass

GOOD! You're in the minority!

[Frumanchu]

while it's incomplete doctrine, the argument could be made that "asking" is "helping themselves".....when in actuality, you and i know - and with a complete reading and understandinof the verse that it is God who transforms

It then basically becomes "God helps those who then help themselves." :)

It is good that many here recognize the reality and depth of man's depravity (although I still believe not to its fullest Biblical extent). It is unfortunate that this view is often not shared by the church at large. I have heard a fair number of sermons and classes, particularly in Disciples of Christ churches, which either explicitly or implicitly deny the effect of original sin on fallen man.