[Kolokotronis]

"I believe Augustine and Aquinas taught (but it is not De fide) that Adam, before he sinned, was in a state of elevated nature, possessing sanctifying grace. Of course, it probably is somewhat speculative to determine what that meant, but I think the purpose was to show what WE will return to and what Christ sacrificed Himself for - a return of man to his original 'state'."

+John of Damascus said that man was indeed created with sanctifying grace, but even at that he was not created "in" union with God, that is to say in a state of theosis, but rather "for" union with God and thus in a state of potential theosis, The Eastern Fathers taught that by rejecting God through disobedience, or perhaps better put, to become divinized but without God, Adam corrupted our natures such that we no longer possessed that potential for theosis which was our pre-Fall state. The Incarnation restored that potential to us. Interestingly, the Fathers also wrote and taught that man, while created a little less than the angels, had the potential to become, from creation, greater than the angels and in so doing, in attaining theosis, man would also divinize the created world around him. Since the perfection of the created world depended on the theosis of man, the Fall also distorted the created world around him, the divinization potential of which was likewise restored by the Incarnation. St. Symeon the New Theologian states explicitly that not only Paradise was incorrupt before the Fall: everything, the whole creation, was without death and corruption. Because he possessed both body and soul, man was the link between this incorrupt material world and the noetic world of the angels. As such, he was to unite the material world with the noetic world through his own ascent to God. St. Macarius the Great, St. John Chrysostom, St. Gregory of Sinai, St Gregory Palamas and St. Maximos the Confessor all taught essentially the same thing, with +Gregory Palamas and +Symeon the New Theologian being, for me, the stand outs here.

"On original sin, I know this is De fide "Adam's sin is transmitted to his posterity, not by imitation, but by descent". He didn't lose sanctifying grace for himself alone. Does the East also believe this, although not De fide?"

No, but human nature, so to speak, became distorted by his sin. In other words, its rather like we have an inherited, spiritually defective DNA, but we inherit neither his sin nor the guilt for it.

[jo kus]

+John of Damascus said that man was indeed created with sanctifying grace, but even at that he was not created "in" union with God, that is to say in a state of theosis, but rather "for" union with God and thus in a state of potential theosis,

I am not sure I understand the distinction. "Potential" theosis? Paul says that the Second Adam restored what the first Adam lost in Romans 5, so that implies the first Adam before the lapse was beyond "potential" theosis, don't you think? Could it be that only with Christ's Atonement was the prodigy of Adam able to later come to divinization later? But what about pre-Fall?

What appears certain is that Adam was free from irregular desire (concupiscience), as that flows from sin, which hadn't existed yet. We also believe he was bodily immortal before the fall. Does the East agree?

In other words, its rather like we have an inherited, spiritually defective DNA, but we inherit neither his sin nor the guilt for it.

The West says the same thing, with a twist. First, Trent says Original sin is a true and proper sin, a guilt of sin - but does not attribute that guilt specifically to an event. It says original sin is the death of the soul - the absence of supernatural life (sanctifying grace). With Baptism, sanctifying grace is infused. Does the East agree? Original sin consists more of a deprivation of grace caused by the head of our race, and not a personal guilt from our own sin. I think it consists more of a lack of something than a positive accumulation of an evil.

Is there anything that I missed? I am not sure what the differences are yet on this subject - accept the pre-Fall state is treated by the East a bit differently.

Brother in Christ