Posted on 09/29/2005 9:01:09 AM PDT by marshmallow
Speculation about the release of a Vatican document containing restrictions barring homosexuals from entering the priesthood has stirred debate and emotions both across the nation and at Notre Dame.
The restrictions, which would require Vatican representatives to investigate the 229 U.S. seminaries for "evidence of homosexuality," have been reported by news agencies but not been officially confirmed. But R. Scott Appleby, director of the Kroc Institute for International Peace Studies and an expert on the Catholic Church's recent sexual abuse scandals, called this possible move by the Vatican "sadly punitive."
"If a gay man feels called to the priesthood, [under the proposed new ruling] he must dissemble, or even lie, about his sexual orientation," Appleby said. "In a sense, the Church would be complicit in a lie."
This, Appleby said, would create an "unhealthy" and repressive climate like the one present in seminaries during the highly publicized scandals of recent years.
"We know how that's an unhealthy situation," Appleby said. "It can even backfire."
The reason for the Vatican's statement stemmed from "the concern that some seminaries in the U.S. are becoming a haven for homosexuals," Appleby said. "And the feeling on the part of some people that heterosexuals are intimidated from entering the seminary, or feel uncomfortable, because it's a gay climate."
Theology professor Father Richard McBrien agreed with the idea that a gay climate exists in seminaries. He said the Church's sexual abuse scandals were a major contributing factor to the proposed restrictions.
"The U.S. cardinals themselves asked for this investigation of seminaries in April 2002, at the height of the sexual abuse scandal," McBrien said. "At the time - and since - there were a number of charges, mainly from ultra-conservative Catholics, that homosexuals in the priesthood were responsible for the sexual abuse, 80 percent of whose victims were boys."
This statistic, theology professor Lawrence Cunningham said, sparked controversy.
"Since it was overwhelmingly young men, over young women [who were allegedly abused], the question is were they [Church officials] ordaining men who were homosexuals," Cunningham said. "Some people have criticized this ... that once there had been evidence of that, these people have not been removed from active ministry."
Appleby said he did not support the belief that homosexuals in seminaries were a cause of the scandals, a theory he attributed to "anxiety" in the Vatican.
"Cardinal Ratzinger has taught that the orientation to homosexuality is inherently disordered, but not sinful," Appleby said, referring to a statement made by the current Pope Benedict XVI in the mid-1980s that sin resulted from acting on, not possessing, a homosexual orientation.
"Even by the Church's teaching, this new ruling is harsh," Appleby said.
Appleby said throughout the 20th century, when priests were asked why they joined the priesthood, their "number one reason was to save their immortal souls, which means to become holy and do Christ's work."
The proposed restrictions are a commentary on this concept, Appleby said.
"What the Church seems to be saying is Christ can transform the lives of sinners who are heterosexual, but not those who are homosexual," he said.
Both Appleby and McBrien disagreed with the logic behind the Vatican's statement.
"It's hard for me to find a silver lining in either the ruling or attitude that stands behind it," Appleby said. "Most Catholics in this country know many good priests who are gay, but keep their vows of celibacy ... There are so many good and loyal and holy priests [who are also gay]."
Like Appleby, McBrien took issue with the discord between the restrictions and the Church's distinction view on homosexuality.
"Unfortunately, this latest anti-gay campaign seems to imply that merely being gay is enough to exclude one from seminaries and the priesthood, even if the gay person is sexually inactive," he said.
McBrien said the restrictions would "of course" worsen the current priest shortage facing the U.S.
"If a significant number of gay priests decide to leave the priesthood over this matter and if gays leave the seminaries and others no longer apply for admission, mathematically this will deplete the number of priests and future priests," he said.
Neither Appleby nor McBrien thought the number of heterosexual candidates for priesthood would increase as a result of the ruling.
"The problem for heterosexual young men is not the gay culture of seminaries, but the rule of obligatory celibacy," McBrien said. "That genie is out of the bottle and cannot be put back in. The Roman Catholic Church will have to address the problem of celibacy openly and objectively or the priest shortage will only worsen."
Appleby said the proposed investigations would be "rare."
"There are visitations of seminaries, but this type of visitation is for disciplinary purposes, what we might call housekeeping," he said.
If enacted, the regulations could require an investigation of Notre Dame's Moreau Seminary. Moreau superior Father Patrick Neary and Moreau seminarian Father J. Steele said they could not estimate the potential impact of the investigations on Moreau.
"It's all speculation," Neary said. "I would caution people not to get hysterical since nothing's been published. There's been a lot of emotion over this."
Speculation about the possible restrictions has been rising, Steele said.
"I've heard these rumors for some time ... If this comes out then we'll have to deal with it," Steele said.
While Neary could not speak to the potential for increases or decreases in the number of candidates entering Moreau, he said he "would be concerned if a statement came out."
Even though the Church has not released anything official, Appleby said anticipation of proposed Vatican investigations had already taken its toll on priests.
"I think many priests, heterosexual and homosexual, have already been hurt by the publicity about this visitation," Appleby said. "I can't imagine it having a positive effect on the morale of priests precisely because it would take on the aspect of a witch hunt."
So the Catholic Church officially forbids the ordination of homosexuals.....like 40 years ago. Know-alls like those quoted above ignore the ruling and follow their own agenda, regardless.
Result? The chickens come home to roost in the form of abuse cases in the hundreds and multi-million dollar law suits. The Church re-empasizes its teaching on the question of homosexual ordination in an attempt to root out the problem.
The usual suspects still don't get it and cry "witch-hunt".
It aint a "witch-hunt". It's a bitch-hunt. And that's what you get when you don't do the right thing to begin with and ordain perverts.
For later.
WTF, How does he know this? Sounds like BS to me.
More kicking and screaming.
Right. We really want liars for our priests, don't we? Not even the suggestion that such a person should honestly recognize that no matter how "called" he "feels," he is not a suitable candidate for ordination.
Oh, yeah? Who made up this cr*p?
I can't think of a single priest who I know is homosexual. One or two of the substitutes we've had when our pastor is away have made me wonder, but (a) I don't know they're homosexual; (b) I don't know if they're good priests, overall, only that they turn up on time to fill in, and manage to get through Mass reasonably well; and (c) I couldn't say from my own knowledge whether any priest I've known has always been faithful to his vow of celibacy, no matter what type of feelings he has.
I expect that "most Catholics," if they thought it through, would come to similar conclusions.
No surprises here. Unfortunately many of the powers that be at Notre Dame, especially in the theology dept and campus ministry, are heterodox liberals. The school paper, from which this article came, is also much more leftist than the campus at large. What you won't hear about are the many professors, students, and priests at Notre Dame who do approve of the Pope's action. When I was a student at ND, I knew many young men who were either seminarians or in the pre-seminary program. Most of them were very solid, smart, straight, and orthodox men. The ones that weren't eventually left the pre-seminary program; they didn't go on to become Holy Cross priests. One of these seminarians remarked to me a good 4 years ago that the presence of the "lavender mafia" in so many parts of the Church is really hurting vocations in young men such as himself. I do not doubt that he and many other future priests at Notre Dame are very pleased to see the Vatican cracking down on this nonsense.
This is what we call utilitarianism. Scripture does not look kindly on the argument "let us do evil so that good may come of it."
Stupid line. If the guy (gay) lies, then he lies....him. He's a liar.
"The Church made me do it." is a defense to these folks? Numbskulls to the last one of 'em.
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"If a gay man feels called to the priesthood, [under the proposed new ruling] he must dissemble, or even lie, about his sexual orientation," Appleby said. "In a sense, the Church would be complicit in a lie."So if you think God's calling you to something, you're required to lie in order to bring it about. Sounds like cutting-edge moral theology.
Appleby said throughout the 20th century, when priests were asked why they joined the priesthood, their "number one reason was to save their immortal souls, which means to become holy and do Christ's work."What's the point, that if you want to be a priest but get turned down for some reason Appleby thinks is OK, you're a kleptomaniac or misogynist or have an IQ of 70 or whatever, then that shows the Church and Appleby have decided Christ can't transform your life?The proposed restrictions are a commentary on this concept, Appleby said.
"What the Church seems to be saying is Christ can transform the lives of sinners who are heterosexual, but not those who are homosexual," he said.
Appleby was one of the two speakers the bishops chose to address them at the big pow-wow they had about the Scandal a couple of years ago. The other was even worse. Makes you wonder. Or maybe it doesn't make you wonder.
McBrien said the restrictions would "of course" worsen the current priest shortage facing the U.S.What does mathematics have to do with it? The guy sounds like a clerk of some sort. If there's a definite identity to being a priest, and men admire that identity, then men will want to be priests."If a significant number of gay priests decide to leave the priesthood over this matter and if gays leave the seminaries and others no longer apply for admission, mathematically this will deplete the number of priests and future priests," he said.
Thanks, it's mostly forming a habit that when a thread comes up, I note it.
Have you ever heard of Kroc Institute for International Peace Studies? It sounds like something someone made up to appear like an "expert".
I seem to recall reading that the widow of Ray Kroc, the McDonald's mogul, donated a bunch of money for squishy causes. It's not clear to me how "international peace" is related to homosexuality; the global confluence of leftist moonbats, I guess.
Thanks for the inside scoop on NDU. Our son is there, loving it. Sometimes the news from there makes me catch my breath, but I am always brought back to the fact that there are quiet, orthodox, 'silent majority' people everywhere.
Well my organization, The Acme Institute for a Safe Education has decided that anyone who enjoys getting it in the poopoo has no business in a seminary.
Did you get a Federal grant for that pronouncement?
BFLR
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