Posted on 09/28/2005 4:44:24 PM PDT by NYer
My mother is a Protestant from Northern Ireland. The confluence of religion and political power, is, in my opinion, a terrible evil in Europe. However, you can blame John Calvin and John Knox for it as much as the contemporaneous Popes.
Oh, Indians killed some of my ancestors in Illinois, too ... but my husband is Cherokee. Conservatives Get Over It.
Thanks, but I am not interested. All I ever need to know about islam I've learned by Sept 12/2001. And as for their theology - it is baboonery, like every other theology.
OBTW, jack chick is a liar. If you're insecure in your "faith" jack chick's lies may be all you have to offer.
>>btw, did I ever tell you how the RC church boiled one of my forefathers in hot oil? alive. and that was after they tore his fingernails out one by one.<<
Life sucks. Ever see BraveHeart? They actually did disembowel Catholics. It goes both ways.
My hubby was under the same misconception as you that the horrors were all Catholic to Protestant.
Check out early America. Not every Protestant was an angel either.
OBTW, jack chick is a liar. If you're insecure in your "faith" jack chick's lies may be all you have to offer.
"The Catholics on this site hate being challenged and will turn nasty quick if you challenge them."
What you say is true about a select few but by no means all. You might also notice that the folks on the receiving end of the brickbats are usually fellow Catholics.
People grow, and their views change. I was a protestant and am now a Catholic. I was and am a Christian. Where is the problem?
Do you have the guts to think about that?
"The Scriptures are THE authority. I think even the Catholic church would agree with this for the most part."
The Catholic Church agrees with that in every particular.
"I don't think the Catholic Church would say the Scriptures are in error - I think they merely maintain that some Protestant leaders have wrongly interpreted Scripture."
That, and they have chopped a big part of them right out of the Bibles they use.
It's just not the case that anyone can read the Bible and understand it correctly all on his own. Even something as well-known as the Parable of the Prodigal Son I didn't understand correctly until in my late forties. (I always thought the older brother kind of had a point.)
Do they get vicious like you catholics?
You must indeed be special to have such a special window on God. Are there any others at the window or is it just you?
Me, too. Took my mother a while to get over it ("Thank God your Grandpop is in his grave ..."), but she sure appreciates all the grandchildren now. And I'm very grateful for the formation I had growing up as a Presbyterian, especially all the Bible reading. Many Catholics of my generation apparently didn't have that (and they don't know 4 verses of many great old hymns, either!).
Is this the doctrine of the Catholic Church?
It is an oversimplification that can lead one to false ideas.
First, "salvation" to Catholics doesn't mean the same thing that it does for Protestants. Thus, if I say "Baptism saves", you will immediately think we believe we go to heaven because of this one-time event. The correct term is "justify". We are made children of God, inheritors of heaven, infused with God's Grace and forgiven of all sin. If we were to slip and fall in the Baptismal font and die, we'd be in heaven. But for the rest of us, our eternal salvation is not secured as a result of ONLY Baptism.
The Gospels (and Paul, if one drops Sola Fide as their lenses for looking at the Scriptures) are clear that we must have faith in God, trust in His promises, and obey Him out of the sake of our love for Him. When doing deeds of love, it is understood that God is present within us, as we cannot earn righteousness on our own. God enables us to "work out our salvation", as He places within us the will and ability to do His will (Phil 2:12,13).
Someone brought up the Young Rich Man previously. That is one of many examples that Jesus gives us about what we must do to enter the Kingdom. He told the man "you are not far from the Kingdom" when the man said he obeyed the commandments. Jesus looked at the man and loved him - presumably, because he was not like the Pharisees who did good works BUT expected payment/wages. The man obeyed the commandments out of love for God. "He was not far from the Kingdom" But Christ saw another attachment - money - that kept the man from entering God's Kingdom. Faith is nowhere mentioned in this story. HOWEVER, it is PRESUMED, since the man was obeying the commandments out of love.
One can be saved only through faith in God, working out his faith through love (Gal 5:6). Without love, I am nothing (1 Cor 13:2). Faith without works (of love) is dead (James 2). Thus, BOTH are needed - faith AND deeds of love. Since justification is NOT a one-time process (we are not always righteous in God's eyes), we must persevere in our faith and love in God. God gives us the grace to continue on this journey, which we call sanctification. The two terms go together.
An interesting analogy that might help is this...
Think of a person as a glass full of black liquid, representing our soul before God's graces come to us through Baptism. God, from Baptism, pours His Spirit into us (the glass), adding white liquid and completely whitening the liquid in the glass. Now, as time goes by, we, by our sin, add black liquid back into the glass. It darkens a bit. When we ask for forgiveness, repent, and love others, God pours some white liquid back in. As we continue to grow in holiness, we add less black liquid in, while God continues to add white liquid. The day we die, God will judge the color of the liquid. Note, we NEVER add white liquid to the glass! We ONLY can try to keep the black liquid out. By turning to God, He gives us a stronger will, enabling us to resist temptation and to love others without thought of reward (as we can never earn a reward).
Some may ask "well, how do I know if my "glass is white or black"? Don't be scrupulous like Luther...If a person is sorry for the sins he has committed, this is the work of the Spirit within us - thus, we are not being shunned by God. Hope this helps
Regards
In fact, I am retiring from FR for the evening.
I am in a particularly foul mood, for reasons unrelated to this thread in particular or FR in general.
I find that I am unable to promote the truth in a spirit of Christian Charity, and if I continue on this thread I will sooner rather than later say something that I will regret.
Good night.
God bless you all (especially my opponents).
Please pray for me.
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