Posted on 09/26/2005 6:29:50 PM PDT by laney
Oct. 4 will indeed be a holy day. For the first time in 33 years, two world religions will simultaneously mark the beginning of their most sacred seasons on the same day. Jews will celebrate Rosh Hashana, the Jewish New Year that also begins the 10-day period known as the “Days of Awe.” And Muslims will usher in Ramadan, the holy month that is marked by daily fasting between sunrise and sunset.
Christians, meanwhile, will be marking the Feast of St. Francis of Assisi, also on Oct. 4. Across the country, religious communities are using the calendar's coincidence as a launch pad for interfaith projects around topics ranging from the political to the spiritual. Rabbi Arthur Waskow, the director of the Philadelphia-based Shalom Center, a national peace and justice organization, has dubbed the confluence of holidays “God's October Surprise.”
Why Rosh Hashana and Ramadan Meet Only Once Every 33 Years
Everybody knows that there are 365 days in the solar year. But how many know the number of days in a lunar year? The answer is 354, 11 days fewer than the solar calendar. Judaism and Islam, which both observe a lunar calendar, treat this disparity differently, explaining why it is so noteworthy that this year, the Muslim holy month of Ramadan begins on the same day as the Jewish new year, Rosh Hashana (Oct. 4).
That would be Saturday, The Sabbath as all the Apostles did.
"Very early in the morning, on the first day of the week, they came to the tomb when the sun had risen." (Mark 16:2)
Verse 6 says. "Don't be alarmed," he said. "You are looking for Jesus the Nazarene, who was crucified. He has risen! He is not here. See the place where they laid him." Notice this verse is in the past tense as our saviour had risen the previous sunset, Sabbath Day, 72 hours after his entombment on Wednesday the 14 of Nisan.
Then, the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled, for fear of the Jews
Notice this is not a religious gathering....it is because of the fear of the Jews.
"Now on the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul, ready to depart the next day, spoke to them and continued his message until midnight." (Acts 20:7)
Did you notice that Paul spoke until midnight. According to the Hebrews, midnight on the first day of the week, would be Saturday night.
"On the first day of the week let each one of you lay something aside, storing up as he may prosper, that there be no collections when I come." (1 Cor. 16:2)
Paul is simply telling them to save some of their materiel blessings for the folks in Jerusalem...see also Romans 15: No religious service here.
There is no record in Scripture of the early church meeting on the last day of the week for the "breaking of bread" and to hear the apostles' teaching.
No, but there is much scripture devoted to observing the the Feast Days of The Lord.
I celebrate the only legitimate "holy day" under the new covenant, that is, the Lord's Day which is the new covenant Sabbath.
You celebrate Sunday from your traditions....you will not find it in scripture or will you ever find The New Testament Church of God celebrating the Day of the Sun.
I see what you have done. You have taken a marker and crossed out those portions of Lev. 23 that do not fit with modern ersatz messianic practices. You have used your traditions and made the word of God fit it.
My question to you was, where specifically did God tell folks to continue to "observe" these holy days without the sacrifices, the physical tabernacle/temple, and the Levitical priesthood, etc?
If you are going to appeal to the establishment of the Lord's Supper, then you have to additionally prove that all the holy days are included under the extreme modifications to thew Passover which culminated in the simplicity of the Lord's Supper. We are to remember Christ's death through the instruments of bread and wine representing His body and blood. And we are to do it "often", not yearly as was the Passover (1 Cor. 11:26).
Hebrews does not says that only a portions of the Levitical system passed away, and we get to keep the ones we want. Hebrews says that it all was decaying and about to pass away (Heb. 8:13).
The fact remains that whatever you do with the old covenant holy days, you are clearly in violation of Deut. 12:32.
That would be Saturday, The Sabbath as all the Apostles did.
After the resurrection of Jesus, when the old covenant began to pass away from the scene (Heb. 8:13), where did the apostles gather with the people and set aside the last day of the week? Please be specific.
On the other hand, we do have examples of the church gathering on the first day of the week to break bread and hear the apostles teach. (In spite of the fact that you wish to twist the Scriptures to make "first day" read "last day".)
So you are the one with practices out of sorts with the new covenant. I'm sure the Judaizers had objections similar to yours.
And I pray that I may know Him more fully each day I live for Him.
If you continue reading in Hebrews through chapter 9 you will see what had become obsolete....certainly not the recognition and observance of God's Feast Days and Sabbaths. As mentioned in previous posts, the Levitical priesthood with all of the regulations and ceremonies had been replaced. See Hebrews 7:11-28. God's Holy Days and Commandments were not part of the priesthood. I truly am sorry you cannot see this....especially when those statuates and ordinances were given to us for all times.
Well, as I said it's not in the Bible so perhaps that is why I cannot see it. The holy days are demonstrably linked to the priesthood.
"Speak to the children of Israel, and say to them: 'When you come into the land which I give to you, and reap its harvest, then you shall bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest to the priest. He shall wave the sheaf before the Lord, to be accepted on your behalf; on the day after the Sabbath the priest shall wave it. ... Then you shall sacrifice one kid of the goats as a sin offering, and two male lambs of the first year as a sacrifice of a peace offering. ... The priest shall wave them with the bread of the firstfruits as a wave offering before the Lord, with the two lambs. They shall be holy to the Lord for the priest. ...These are the feasts of the Lord which you shall proclaim to be holy convocations, to offer an offering made by fire to the Lord, a burnt offering and a grain offering, a sacrifice and drink offerings, everything on its day ... " (Lev. 23:10,11,19,20,37)
Perhaps you can be more careful in the book of Hebrews and should verse by verse where the writer does away with part of the Levitical code but not all.
"For the priesthood being changed, of necessity there is also a change of the law." (Heb. 7:12)
Some of the law, or all of the law, has changed?
Certain important points remain unanswered by you.
1) All the holy days of the old covenant were all given in the context of blood sacrifices, the tabernacle, and the priesthood.
2) All the holy days were types of the work of Christ, esp. the passover. Christ fulfilled all the law, esp. the ceremonial law, so that Christians are no longer bound to keep those provisions (food, drink, clothing, days and seasons, etc).
3) Only one holy day, the Passover, was transposed into the Lord's Supper on the authority of Christ and His apostles.
4) The other holy days are never again mentioned in the new covenant and were decaying and passed away with the rest of the old covenant (Heb. 8:13). The apostles never kept these holy days in the context of the church. They regarded them as "feasts of the Jews" (John 5:1). While they may have attended to the temple for a time while it was still standing as a witness to the Jews, they recognized the finality of the old covenant passing when it was destroyed.
5) God has given no explicit commandment in His word for the keeping of erstaz holy days that do not conform to the law as found in Leviticus.
"I truly am sorry you cannot see this."
You mean like this one?
"'For on that day the priest shall make atonement for you, to cleanse you, that you may be clean from all your sins before the Lord. It is a sabbath of solemn rest for you, and you shall afflict your souls. It is a statute forever. And the priest, who is anointed and consecrated to minister as priest in his father's place, shall make atonement, and put on the linen clothes, the holy garments; then he shall make atonement for the Holy Sanctuary, and he shall make atonement for the tabernacle of meeting and for the altar, and he shall make atonement for the priests and for all the people of the assembly. This shall be an everlasting statute for you, to make atonement for the children of Israel, for all their sins, once a year.' And he did as the Lord commanded Moses." (Lev. 16:30-34).
The bloody day of atonement was give as an "everlasting statute", yet no one follows it today as it was given in its "everlasting" form. There are ersatz renderings, but nothing that pleases the Lord.
Now, you may argue that Christ fulfilled the statute and it is still "everlasting" in the sense that He has atoned for His people for all time, but then the question becomes why stop there? If Christ fulfilled one "everlasting" statute then why did He not fulfill all the "everlasting" statutes and ordinances? To this question you have given no good answer.
You've got it backwards. Where in scripture does it say that the feasts of the Lord, our God, our saviour, are not to be observed? The unmistakeable instructions to Christian believers in Hebrews, a holy book of the holy bible, are that animal sacrifices and offerings and the Levitical priesthood are no longer needed with the death of Christ on the cross. It does NOT say that we should no longer observe the feasts of the Lord.
Paul himself does not agree with you. Paul, apostle of the Lord, said to residents of Ephesus:
Act 18:21 But bade them farewell, saying, I must by all means keep this feast that cometh in Jerusalem: but I will return again unto you, if God will. And he sailed from Ephesus.
Paul, to whom Jesus Christ revealed himself, says of the feast of unleavened bread:
1Co 5:8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
Therefore, let us, Christians, KEEP THE FEAST. Paul certainly didn't have the same understanding you did. Paul certainly didn't believe that the Levitical system was needed for Christians to KEEP THE FEAST. Paul didn't think that animals sacrifices were needed to KEEP THE FEAST.
I can believe you and your tradition, or I can believe Paul and scripture. I chose Paul and scripture.
Why were the disciples assembled? For a religious service? No, FOR FEAR OF THE JEWS.
"Now on the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul, ready to depart the next day, spoke to them and continued his message until midnight." (Acts 20:7)
This is Saturday night. Breaking bread is a generic term used for a meal. We still use it today. This is merely fellowship after the sabbath, which ended at sunset. There is no mention of any kind of religious service. Incidentally I thought you might find Acts 20:6, the previous verse, interesting:
Act 20:6 We sailed from Philippi after the days of Unleavened Bread, and came to them at Troas within five days; and there we stayed seven days.
Interesting how Luke marks the time in a Christian holy book by citing a festival that supposedly no Christian kept.
"On the first day of the week let each one of you lay something aside, storing up as he may prosper, that there be no collections when I come." (1 Cor. 16:2)
Paul apparently isn't coming on the first day of the week since he tells them to collect goods. It's not like a Sunday pass the plate collection because here's the next verse:
1Co 16:3 When I arrive, whomever you may approve, I will send them with letters to carry your gift to Jerusalem;
Paul is taking the stuff the Corinthians collect to Jerusalam. Why? Here's why:
Act 11:28 One of them named Agabus stood up and began to indicate by the Spirit that there would certainly be a great famine all over the world. And this took place in the reign of Claudius.
Act 11:29 And in the proportion that any of the disciples had means, each of them determined to send a contribution for the relief of the brethren living in Judea.
Act 11:30 And this they did, sending it in charge of Barnabas and Saul to the elders.
There ya go. There was a famine in Judea. Paul tells each of the churches to collect food and stuff for the brethren in Jerusalem. Kind of like relief effort for hurricane Katrina or Rita.
What has happened topcat is that you look at these verses through the backwards lens of tradition and history. Tradition and history have "evolved" the sabbath from the seventh day COMMANDED and CREATED by the Lord God to the first day of the week, created by man.
Sorry, you must first tell me where God authorized a change in practice from the biblical requirements of Lev. 23 to the ersatz forms of today? When you can do that then we can proceed. Otherwise I don't need to respond. I just need to point out that you are in direct violation of Deut. 12:32, "Whatever I command you, be careful to observe it; you shall not add to it nor take away from it.".
After the resurrection of Jesus, when the old covenant began to pass away from the scene (Heb. 8:13), where did the apostles gather with the people and set aside the last day of the week? Please be specific.
Can't do much for you friend. If you don't accept the book of Hebrews and the testimony of Paul as authoritative then nothing I can say will convince you otherwise.
They were keeping the 7th day holy for thousands of years at the specific commandment of God who created the 7th day holy:
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.
You see, God created the 7th day holy at the beginning of the world. He codified it in the ten commandments. Israel and all God fearing non-Israelites kept the day holy. At the time of the apostles there was never a thought, inkling, or idea that it wasn't holy. There was no need to sit down and figure out what day was set aside by God almighty. Everyone knew. It was read in the scriptures every sabbath. Jesus Christ, God almighty on earth, kept it as an example. You would have had to be an illiterate caveman NOT to know that the 7th day was holy and set aside by God.
I would recommend doing a historical study on the evolution of the sabbath in Christianity because history is where it happened, not scripture.
You didn't answer my question. I take it you don't have an answer.
Hebrews is a big book. Try to be more specific. Especially, try to find a place where God said He was setting aside just a portion of the Levitical code and keeping enough for ersatz holy days. That should be easy, as I said Hebrews is a big book.
Canon XXIX...."Christians must not judaize by resting on the Sabbath, but must work on that day, rather honouring the Lord's Day; and, if they can, resting then as Christians. But if any shall be found to be judaizers, let them be anathema from Christ."
39 years earlier "The Council of Nicea" laid the groundwork for much anti-semitic legislation of later church councils. The Council of Antioch (341 A.D.) prohibited Christians from celebrating Passover with the Jews. The first mention of "The Venerable Day of the Sun" was made at Nicea which had been convened by Constantine, a (former) Sun Worshiper".
These new laws and canons were of course now backed up by civil law and military power. Don't you think it strange that it took over 300 years to get out the word? Those pesky Christian judaizers....I swear!
You know....300 years ago is a long time. We still had not invented the "Pet Rock" 300 years ago.
I've shown you that Hebrews chapters 8,9 and 10 show exactly what has changed between the new covenant and the old covenant.
Chapter 8 discusses how the Levitical priesthood was the mediator of the old covanent, while Christ is the mediator of the new.
Chapter 9 discusses why Christ takes the place of sacrifices and offerings and chapter 10 reiterates this and offers additional insights in that God's laws are written in the hearts of believers.
However, in all of this there is not one mention of that the holy days created and made holy by God. Not one, and especially not one that mentions that they are not to be observed.
You've already discounted, or at least refused to address, the examples of new testament Christians keeping the feast days after the death of Christ.
You've discounted Paul's clear instructions to Christians in scripture to keep the feast.
You've discounted scripture that shows that the feast days are going to be kept in the future.
You've even discounted the fact that Jesus Christ, God almighty on earth, never refuted, denied, or made unholy any of the days that HE himself made holy. He in fact observed the very same feast days he created.
Now what you've done is to take scripture and then apply your own notion that we shouldn't be celebrating the days that God calls HIS and are holy because they're celebrated differently according to the guidelines of the new covenant. It's your own notion, because as we've seen, it's completely unsupported in scripture.
And I've pointed out to you how the sacrifies, Levitical priesthood, and holy days were inseparably linked in Leviticus 23, to which you have yet to respond.
Your ersatz holy days to not meet the biblical test. They are pure human tradition. They pretend to honor God. They evidence a zeal without knowledge. They violate Deut. 12:32.
Contra messianics and other "seventh-day" groups, the Bible nowhere teaches the Sabbath was, is, and will always be the seven day of the week. They wish to have Exodus 20 read like this:
"Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the Sabbath day is the seventh day of the week."
Of course Exodus doesn't say that. It plainly says the seventh day is the Sabbath. And so it was under the old covenant. Exodus is laying down the principle of one day in seven rest. Sabbath means "rest". The seventh day was the day of rest under the old covenant. This, or course, was a picture of our eternal rest in the finished work of Christ (Heb. 4:9).
"Work shall be done for six days, but the seventh is the Sabbath of rest, holy to the Lord. Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death." (Exodus 31:15)
The "seventh day" argument twists the meaning of the Sabbath texts to say something is plainly does not say. Jesus makes that clear when He declared.
"And He said to them, 'The Sabbath was made for man, and not man for the Sabbath. Therefore the Son of Man is also Lord of the Sabbath.'" (Mark 2:27,28)
The Lord of the Sabbath had the prerogative to change the day of the week that was the Sabbath from the last day to the first. This He did but rising from the dead on the first day of the week, gathering with His disciples after the resurrection on the first day of the week, and His apostles meeting with the flock, breaking bread, and hearing their teaching on the first day of the week.
Jesus truly is the Lord of the Sabbath. The vestiges of the old, decayed and putrefied covenant have been totally set aside. Not longer do we worship God through human priests. No longer to we need to come to a physical temple with bloody sacrifices. No longer do we find our Sabbath rest on the last day of the week. Jesus is our Sabbath rest, and by rising on the first day He reminds those who truly worship Him on that day of all He has accomplished on their behalf.
You know, topcat54....you seem like a good guy and I have enjoyed this discourse with you very much. But you are incorrect here also. The Messiah came out of that tomb at sunset on the Sabbath and I don't think you want to try and argue that with me scripturally. It was the traditions of men that caused the institution of Sunday worship....not the Word of God.
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