Homosexuals in the seminary; A Global Church in a Globalized World

National Catholic Reporter ^ | September 23, 2005 | John Allen

[NYer]

No fan of the National Catholic Reporter, here is one article where John Allen truly strikes a chord.

Understanding how the rest of the Catholic world sees things is critical to effective communication.

Many Catholics are not aware that the Church is both Western and Eastern. There are 22 different Catholic Rites, including Byzantine, Armenian, Coptic, Chaldean, Melkite, Maronite, Ukrainian, and Ruthenian. A Roman Catholic may attend Mass at any of the Eastern Catholic Churches and fulfill their Sunday obligation.

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[TotusTuus]

Can we bring ourselves to accept that the church before our eyes will probably never be the church of our dreams, and perhaps that's for the best, since our own dreams are always more limited than those of the entire communion spread across space and through time?

He's only half right here. He, like many of the "American Catholics" he seems to be talking about, has the irksome quality of treating the Church as if She is a great universal political party for the world.

"Since our own dreams are always more limited than those ... [other people throughout the world]" Bleech! What about God?

A good poet (of which I'm not) might finish it off something like this:

"Since our own dreams are always more limited than the Grace God wishes to bathe us in to participate in performing His Will".

[Kolokotronis]

Great and informative article. Thanks!

[bornacatholic]

Inculturation: Catholicism is one faith, but it has to be expressed through many cultures. Striking the right balance between unity and diversity will be a defining challenge in the church of the future, especially as a faith incubated in Europe and the West continues to expand and come of age in cultures with very different attitudes, instincts and modes of expression. Generally speaking, theologians and prelates from the developing world will push for greater freedom to adapt Eurocentric models of worship and doctrinal expression of the Western church to their own circumstances. Further, as immigration and cultural mobility increasingly bring the South to the doorstep of the West, the patterns of thought, life and worship of the South will more and more be part of the warp and woof of the church everywhere. Liturgy is one arena in which this tension will work itself out. These trends may push the envelope in terms of Western sensibilities. In general, southern Christianity tends to be more spontaneous, with a much more lively sense of the supernatural - healings, visions, prophecies, possessions and exorcisms, and so on. African worship in particular tends to be heavily charismatic. As Roman Catholicism in the future speaks with an African and Hispanic accent, it will also speak in tongues.

*IMO, Allen is right. There is a tendency, among the self-described trads, to think there will be a return to the Old Liturgy as normative. That clearly isn't going to happen, Nor, sadly, will those favoring that outcome likely stop viewing as heretical or suspect or sacriligeous those favoring Christian Worship in a Charismatic or speaking-in-tongues fashion.

Those thinking tolerance of their desires hasn't been extended to them are often those least tolerant of those with other desires.

The redeemed gather with Jesus at the altar to offer the Sacrifice of the New Covenant to God and to participate in the Heavenly Banquet/Feast of the New Covenant and that can be accomplished in many, many, many different ways. In the future I think we will see more, not less, liberty within the Liturgy. Frankly, that is my desire.

Were I Pope, Roman control over the Liturgy could be summarized on the back of a postcard while I would concentrate time/effort on priestly formation so those well-educated/formed priests could one day become Bishop and ensure authentic Liturgy would be accomplished within his Jurisdiction with whatever emphasis necessary for his people who he knows much better than Rome.

The purpose of the Church is Salvation not universal european 16th century uniformity in matters Liturgical. It is the Mass that matters, yes; but, not in the way trads imagine.

[NYer]

He's only half right here.

True ... but ... he touches on some excellent points that impact and get to the bottom of the Catholic Church's approach to ecumenism. That, more than anything else in this article, is what captured my interest.

To cite an example, on Thursday morning, the governor of NY, visiting China for trade negotiations, established a live link with the US press. In response to one reporter's question, he commented that though NY and many other states, have lost jobs to the Chinese marketplace, we must face reality. He cited Chinese history where they tried to protect themselves by building the Great Wall. It didn't work then and it won't work now.

The same is true for the Catholic Church. It must reach out to find and build upon common ground.

[Piers-the-Ploughman]

Article said: Archbishop John Onaiyekan of Abuja, Nigeria, told me some time ago that he finds this a patronizing Western conceit, as if to say, "Once the Africans get out of their huts and get some education, they'll think like us." He predicts that if anything, as Africa's self-confidence and development levels grow, it will become bolder about asserting its moral vision on the global stage.

Maybe the Africans might become like that, or they could see decadent West as a warning not to so easily abandon Christian morality. Perhaps negative examples can also help a nation as they might a person stay focused on the straight and narrow.

[SaltyJoe]

"No fan of the National Catholic Reporter..."

I know exactly what you mean. There was too much mention of racial and economic differences and not enough on the Universality of the Sacramental Life. Race and economics are going to be a useless argument the more interracial marriages happen and making wealth becomes as easy as breaking a sweat. The missed point that this article should have mentioned is "OBEDIENCE"!

"I and many African Christians are always at a loss to comprehend....Why should people who do not desire to have children go after other people's children?"

I'm surprised that African Christians would asked such a question given that they rank high in spirituality for recognizing the fact that Devils are very real creatures and possession is a very terrible reality. Answer to the question: The focus of demonic action is to sever souls' relationship with the Mystical Body of Christ. Homosexuality is an abomination whose seed spawns from Satan. Sin will not stop poisoning new generations until they lie stinking in the grave.

---

"Vatican officials finally grasped the pressure-cooker media environment the American bishops had been dealing with, and at least some reporters got a window into what the American bishops were up against."

I like it when God's enemies underestimates the power of Rome and the Holy Spirit. I don't think that American bishops are enemies of God, but much of the MSM is an enemy of Christ's Bride. Am I the only one who's received a "cold water in the face" reality wake up call? Sometimes I need a speech or occasion that reminds me that "I" don't matter. It's similar to the Queen of England pretending not to know some famous entertainer's name when they meet for their knighting.

"Your majesty, this is Mr. Elton John."

"Hello. And what is it you do, Mr. John?"

---

"Pope John Paul II defined Asia as the great missionary horizon of the church in the 21st century"

If China takes center stage for world powers, it's because she becomes Catholic. No other religion would forgive Beijing's horrific Communism the way the Sacrament of Reconciliation will. Other cultures and religions rejoice in revenge and the world's justice the way a little kid oogles over a 1970s disaster flick. Protestants don't have such a Sacrament. Islamics don't believe in it, and I don't think that Jews are into adoption-for-convertion on such a scale especially when many Asians love to eat pork. That makes China a double negative for the direct descendants of Abraham. Thus, China will become Catholic the way Romans became the Catholic militant. For the conversion of secular Chinese, they may be lead by an economic tycoon for a warrior rather than a legionary general. The same temptations for heresy will be there (Ayranism, as is the first lie by the Father of Lies...to become like gods).

[tuesday afternoon]

"...Then there is the issue of this same people, who have voluntarily excluded themselves from procreation, a gift given to all men and women by God, adopting other people's children. What moral right have they to do so? Why should people who do not desire to have children go after other people's children?"

"Telling it like it is" bump

[bnelson44]

When did John Allen graduate with a doctorate in Moral Theology?

Wait, he didn't.

Trash...

[bnelson44]

The secret is not to try to be 'open' to other faiths. The secret is being TRUE to your own faith.

Muslems know this. It is about time Catholics realized it.

[saradippity]

I wouldn't rule out a return to the Tridentine Mass. It seems to me that a simple statement regarding " Adoring,thanking,petitioning and making reparation using "the same prayer to the same God in the same tongue throughout the world from daybreak to daybreak",might ;resonate with with all of God's children.

It's a powwerful,beautiful and easily comprehended concept. Just my thoughts.

[phatus maximus]

If China takes center stage for world powers, it's because she becomes Catholic. No other religion would forgive Beijing's horrific Communism the way the Sacrament of Reconciliation will. Other cultures and religions rejoice in revenge and the world's justice the way a little kid oogles over a 1970s disaster flick. Protestants don't have such a Sacrament....

So Rome's got that trademarked too? man, there's nothing left for the rest of us...and here i was thinking i could be forgiving and reconcile beyond things that one could deem almost unforgivable...ahhhh shucks!

[SaltyJoe]

Rome isn't the center of any trademark but Rome. Christ is the Trademark. The Universal Church is His Bride.

It's by Christ's Command that Reconciliation exists. It's a Sacrament referenced by the Gospels and rigidly practiced by the very Apostles of the Christian Faith from it's start and continued to this very moment.

Catholic doesn't necessarily mean "Roman Catholic" as there are many other Catholic Rites. China and all others need not fear a human Pope since it's the Holy Eucharist that's the Head (and dare say I, the Sacred Heart) of our Mystical Communion with God, Himself.

[SaintDismas]

I read recently that the Vatican had appoved a "Hebrew" rite too? I was astonished, but after some thought understood how some of the Jewish faith could feel alienated from everything about their exsistence after their conversion to Catholocism, their point of reference. I wish I could remember where I ran across this.

[DBeers]

-much insight and provoking discussion on a myriad of the subjective; however, he completely misses the mark when he goes off on subjective tangent with regard to what is objectively taught regarding morality.

There is no Traditional Sexual Morality: -there is only morality or immorality. We as the Church are united globally in this -there are no gray areas or points of contention or nontraditional morally relative positions abridging what is divinely revealed, authentically taught and universally authentic in spite of our diverse cultures and engineered social systems...

[NYer]

I read recently that the Vatican had appoved a "Hebrew" rite too? I was astonished, but after some thought understood how some of the Jewish faith could feel alienated from everything about their exsistence after their conversion to Catholocism, their point of reference. I wish I could remember where I ran across this.

The Catholic Church is both Western and Eastern. As most of us realize, the Church began in the East. Our Lord lived and died and resurrected in the Holy Land. The Church spread from Jerusalem throughout the known world. As the Church spread, it encountered different cultures and adapted, retaining from each culture what was consistent with the Gospel. In the city of Alexandria, the Church became very Egyptian; in Antioch it remained very Jewish; in Rome it took on an Italian appearance and in the Constantinople it took on the trappings of the Roman imperial court. All the churches which developed this way were Eastern, except Rome. Most Catholics in the United States have their roots in Western Europe where the Roman rite predominated. There are 22 different "rites" approved by the Catholic Church.

I attend a Maronite Catholic Church. It is from Jewish roots that the church of Antioch sprung. In fact, the church of Antioch was founded by St. Peter and it was there that the terms "Christian" and "Catholic" were first used. The first Christians were Jews and entire communities came to accept Jesus as the Messiah. Evidence from archaeological studies of Maronite church buildings show that they had earlier been synagogues. To this day, the Maronite Church retains its Jewish roots more than any other Catholic rite, as evidenced by its use of Aramaic/Syriac and by the prayers which remain faithful to Semantic and Old Testament forms. The Consecration is in Aramaic, using the words and language of our Lord at the Last Supper.

The Vatican recently appointed a coadjutor bishop to the Latin-rite patriarchate of Jerusalem, to minister to the growing community of Hebrew-speaking Catholics in Israel. Perhaps this is what you read?

[RKBA Democrat]

"*IMO, Allen is right. There is a tendency, among the self-described trads, to think there will be a return to the Old Liturgy as normative. That clearly isn't going to happen, Nor, sadly, will those favoring that outcome likely stop viewing as heretical or suspect or sacriligeous those favoring Christian Worship in a Charismatic or speaking-in-tongues fashion."

I tend to agree with you, but would expand upon it a bit. I think our ultra-traditional Roman Catholics in the U.S. are going to have a few disappointing decades. The reality, which Mr. Allen stated quite clearly, was that American Catholics make up about 6% of the world total. What he didn't say was that this share is probably going to continue to shrink.

Although many American Catholics look at the current growth in the numbers of Catholics in the U.S as being a reason for great optimisim, I would hasten to point out that most of that growth is due to immigration not evangelization. And thus this growth will probably slow as a political consensus emerges in the U.S. that immigration (legal and otherwise) needs to be better controlled.

That's a long way of saying that as we become less and less of the world population of Catholics, we'll become less and less relevant in global catholic affairs. What is uniquely important to Catholics in the U.S. will become less important to the overall agenda of the church. The U.S. episcopate will be deciding the priorities and making the decisions for the church. What you see is what you're going to get in that regard.