Posted on 09/17/2005 4:51:33 PM PDT by hiho hiho
MONTCLAIR - In a show of support for same-sex marriage, dozens of local clerics Thursday night rallied at Montclair State University.
The town hall meeting, attended by more than 200 people, was staged as the state Supreme Court is set to hear a case that could result in the legalization of gay marriages in New Jersey. If that happens, New Jersey would become only the second state in the country, behind Massachusetts, to legalize same-sex unions.
"I truly believe that Christians, in particular, have been misrepresented by some who would claim that there's only one Christian position on this matter," said the Rev. John P. Croneberger, the bishop of the Episcopal Diocese of Newark.
"I'm here as one person to say that's simply not true. There are many of us who have a different understanding and who really believe that God blesses relationships between two monogamous committed people in a relationship regardless of gender," he said.
In June, a state Superior Court ruling held that the state constitution does not require the recognition of same-sex marriage. The case, Lewis et. al. v. Harris et. al, is scheduled to be heard during the Supreme Court's current session, which began on Monday.
The Lewis suit was filed in Superior Court, Hudson County, in 2003 by seven gay and lesbian couples, including Mark Lewis and Dennis Winslow, two Episcopalian pastors from Union City, Saundra Toby-Heath and Alicia Heath-Toby, leaders in Newark's Liberation in Truth Unity Fellowship Church and Cindy Meneghin and Maureen Kilian of Butler, who attended the event with their two children, Joshua, 12 and Sarah, 11.
Many religious denominations have struggled recently with the issue of homosexuality inside and outside of the church. The rally came on the heels of an announcement by the Catholic Church that the Vatican had authorized an investigation into possible homosexual behavior at all 229 seminaries in the United States.
Archbishop Edward O'Brien, who leads the Archdiocese of the Military Services in Washington and is overseeing the Vatican probe, recently told the National Catholic Register that "anyone who has engaged in homosexual activity, or has strong homosexual inclinations, would be best not to apply to a seminary and not to be accepted to a seminary."
In August, the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America decided against rescinding its existing ban against the ordination of homosexual clergy. And this past summer, the Rev. Dr. Norman Kansfield was fired as president of the New Brunswick Theological Seminary for performing the same-sex wedding of his daughter.
Conversely, the Episcopal Church consecrated its first openly gay bishop two years ago, when the Rev. Gene Robinson was ordained as bishop of New Hampshire.
The Presbyterian Church USA also has made several statements in support of the rights of homosexuals, including their right to be embraced by the church, and the Universal Unitarian Church has officially supported the rights of gays to marry since 1996.
Within most denominations, however, same-sex marriage has created varying views from both clergy and laypeople, a point many clerics made at the meeting.
There was a cross-section of clerics, who attended the event. Episcopalian, United Church of Christ, Presbyterian, Methodist, Unitarian Universalists, Buddhists and Jewish representatives were in attendance. In the back of the room, even a few lay Catholics were seen.
"The religious right doesn't speak for the whole religious establishment, and I wanted to be here to simply say that," said retired Lutheran pastor Robert O. Kriesat of Gloria Dei Lutheran Church in Chatham. "They don't speak for me or the people that I've known in my congregations that I've served in."
Reach Makeba Scott Hunter at (973) 569-7154 or hunterm@northjersey.com.
There is only one Christian postion on this matter. However, some people claim the title Christian while holding non-Christian views. That's their right, but that doesn't entitle them to get everything they want without enough public support.
"only one position"???
"There was a cross-section of clerics, who attended the event. Episcopalian, United Church of Christ, Presbyterian, Methodist, Unitarian Universalists, Buddhists and Jewish representatives were in attendance."
The usual suspects, I see!
Homosexual Agenda Ping.
Clerics, eh? Usually that word is used to denote Muslim "holy men".
"The religious right doesn't speak for the whole religious establishment, and I wanted to be here to simply say that," said retired Lutheran pastor Robert O. Kriesat of Gloria Dei Lutheran Church in Chatham. "They don't speak for me or the people that I've known in my congregations that I've served in."
Who cares? Who is speaking on behalf of God, that's the question. And since every single monotheist religion in the world, and some that aren't, condemn same sex acts (and indeed, any sex act outside of marriage) as unnatural and unholy, these fools are only fooling themselves.
Freepmail me AND DirtyHarryY2K if you want on/off this pinglist.
What about what God said and continues to say and will always say?
Most homosexual apologetics and homosexual activists that claim to be Christians tend to be cafeteria Christians ignoring some stuff and embracing other stuff and in essence attempting to twist truth to fit the perverted version of reality they promote -- They suggest homosexuality is okay, that homosexual sex is 'love' and point to nothing except their own morally relative deluded and derived interpretation of what is clearly written or not written in Sacred Scripture.
Some ignore the general and point to the lack of specific, some ignore the old and point to the new, some want only certain 'specifics' and only New Testament stuff -some go one step further than most and only specifically want quotes from Christ... They all want only that which supports their perversion and ignore that which affronts it...
The truth however is simple -it does not contradict itself. Contradiction signals perversion and compromise of truth. Only by accepting all truth is any single truth authentically derived and elaborated upon...
Some may know some of what I post already; however, I will post it anyway just in case some genuinely are seeking answers and also for those that may not know and would benefit.
Of course, many realize that Old Testament law is still quite valid -Christ did not do away with the law (see New Testament # 1 below). Old Testament penalties of man may have been done away with; however, the 'old law' is still in effect, mortal sin is still mortal sin and still damages the soul and can condemn one to damnation. I would suggest that condemnation of homosexual activity does not really have to be specific -take the condemnation of sex outside of marriage for example (e.g. unchastitiy; see New Testament # 2 below).
This should be more than adequate to show the clerics espousing homosexual 'love' to be heretical fools that seek ignorance and or deceit by omission and promulgate false authenticity in truth perverted.
New Testament: Sacred Scripture on subject of homosexuality:
- Matthew 5:1-48
17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill.
18 Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or the smallest part of a letter will pass from the law, until all things have taken place.
19 Therefore, whoever breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do so will be called least in the kingdom of heaven. But whoever obeys and teaches these commandments will be called greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
- Matthew 15:1-39
19 For from the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, unchastity, theft, false witness, blasphemy.
- 1 Timothy 1:1-20
8 We know that the law is good, provided that one uses it as law,
9 with the understanding that law is meant not for a righteous person but for the lawless and unruly, the godless and sinful, the unholy and profane, those who kill their fathers or mothers, murderers,
10 the unchaste, practicing homosexuals, kidnapers, liars, perjurers, and whatever else is opposed to sound teaching,
11 according to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, with which I have been entrusted.
- 1 Corinthians 6:1-20
9 Do you not know that the unjust will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor boy prostitutes nor practicing homosexuals
10 nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God.
- Romans 1:1-32
22 While claiming to be wise, they became fools
23 and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for the likeness of an image of mortal man or of birds or of four-legged animals or of snakes.
24 Therefore, God handed them over to impurity through the lusts of their hearts for the mutual degradation of their bodies.
25 They exchanged the truth of God for a lie and revered and worshiped the creature rather than the creator, who is blessed forever. Amen.
25 Therefore, God handed them over to degrading passions. Their females exchanged natural relations for unnatural,
26 and the males likewise gave up natural relations with females and burned with lust for one another. Males did shameful things with males and thus received in their own persons the due penalty for their perversity.
It might be hard to tell from where you're sitting, but I'm rolling my eyes.
True. If you don't follow the precepts of Christianity...you're just a club.
Not a cross-section of Christ's Church but pretty representative of those that will populate hell.
"Not a cross-section of Christ's Church but pretty representative of those that will populate hell."
Well, being Orthodox, I generally take a pass on opining about who is going to hell, save in the case of heretic bishops. Then its pretty easy and as +John Chrysostomos said, the floor of hell is paved with the skulls of bishops!
You could fit the numbers of American attenders of these denominations in a thimble. Within their tiny groups, the pro-homosexual lobby would fit inside an even smaller thimble.
Compared to the mass of current Christianity they are insignificant except that they speak the partyline that the media wants to promote.
Compared to the mass of historic Christianity they are swept aside and viewed as the heretics that they really are.
**The rally came on the heels of an announcement by the Catholic Church that the Vatican had authorized an investigation into possible homosexual behavior at all 229 seminaries in the United States.**
Interesting that they would bring this up in the middle of the article.
Folks like these are nothing but atheists with collars. These "clergy" are nothing but atheistic lapdogs.
"I'm here as one person to say that's simply not true. There are many of us who have a different understanding and who really believe that God blesses relationships between two monogamous committed people in a relationship regardless of gender," he said.
Diocese of Newark, Bishop Spong's old territory. It figures.
However, I have two questions for Bishop Croneberger:
Why monogamy? If God blesses relationships between two people regardless of gender, why does God not bless relationships between more than two people? Ahat does God think about polygamy? And how do you support the notion that same sex monogamous relationships should be recognized and promoted by the church, but polygamous relationships should not? Isn't your view against polygamy simply you imposing your morals on others?
Second, what about bloodlines? How close should two people be related before you would not marry them? Aren't restrictions about cousins marrying simply a throwback based on the outdated notion that marriage is about procreation, and close bloodline inbreeding can cause defects? If you support same sex marriage, you are saying marriage has nothing to do with procreation, and if that is the case, cousins, brothers and sisters, and for that matter fathers and daughters should be able to be married.
Anyone, politician or clergy, who supports same sex marriage should also support polygamous marriage, and support the elmination of bloodline restrictions.
By the way, I am not an advocate for polygamy or incest, however I see the comparison of polygamous marriage to same sex marriage as a much more valid comparison than interracial marriage.
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