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To: InterestedQuestioner
"Obeying God's command to believe (have faith) in His Son (the One which He has sent) ... is the only response which God requires from man ... so as to bestow His gift of salvation. "

God requires that we obey all of his commands.


And ... who can hope to accomplish this ... in this life ?

Do you ?

Do you truly believe that your salvation depends upon your perfect execution of God's Will ?

Wasn't that Jesus' task ?

Going on to your scriptural reference ...
Matthew 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?

17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,

19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

20 The young man saith unto him, All these things have I kept from my youth up: what lack I yet?

21 Jesus said unto him, If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come and follow me.

22 But when the young man heard that saying, he went away sorrowful: for he had great possessions.
This episode in Jesus' ministry has always struck me as one where Jesus is really saying more ... than it appears He is saying.

For instance ... when the young man first comes to Jesus, ... and greets Him by saying ... "Good Master, ... " and Jesus responds firstly, to the young man's question by saying ... "Why do you call Me good ? ... for there is only One Who is good, ... and that is God ... "

Now we (thats Protestants and Catholics) ... who believe in the Deity of Jesus ... can understand that Jesus is here making an implicit reference to His own deity.

AFter all .. the correct answer to the question posed by Jesus is ... "Well ... You are God, after all, ... so there's no problem in calling you good."

Well ... I believe that Jesus is making the same of implicit statement ... when He answers the young man's question about what he must do to have eternal life.

He says to the young man ... "Obey the commandments ... "

This, actually, is exactly the answer to to the question that the young man asked ...
"What good deed must I do to have eternal life.
What Jesus, essentially, says to him is ... "Well, if you are going to do it ... you must be perfect."

And as an example of how that young man could not live perfectly, ... when Jesus asked him to sell all that he had to give to the poor, ... the young man balked, and went away sadly, ... for he knew that he could not do it himself. It was impossible for him.

After Jesus explained to His disciples regarding the difficulty for a rich man to get into heaven, ... His disciples got the message too.

If the ultimate challenge to obey God perfectly would be similar to the young man's challenge to give up his riches, ... then the disciples understood that such was an impossibilty.

They said to Jesus ...
Matthew 19:23 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.

24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.

25 When his disciples heard it, they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?

26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.
So ... the true lesson here is that ... if you're depending upon yourself for your salvation, you're in an impossible situation.

OTOH, ... if you're depending on God for your salvation, ... the impossible has just become a sure thing.


Without God we can do nothing, and through faith, we act obediently to God and cooperate with his Grace. If we are to conform to the language of the bible, however, this faith, does not stand alone ...
And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing." (1Cor 13:2)
Love ... is the context for salvation.

God loves us ... and thus, He saves us.

And we are saved ... to love ... God and our neighbor.

Love is the Source ... and Love is the goal.

The imperative for the saved individual ... is love.

If one does not manifest love, ... than it can be fairly reasoned that one has not received that gift of love from God.

God loved us, ... and now, empowered with that Love, ... we love God (in return) and others.

92 posted on 09/02/2005 9:15:19 PM PDT by Quester (When in doubt ... trust God!)
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To: Quester

Beautiful post, Questor. I needed that. Thank you.


93 posted on 09/02/2005 9:37:11 PM PDT by bonfire (dwindler)
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To: Quester
God requires that we obey all of his commands.
And ... who can hope to accomplish this ... in this life ?
Do you ?

Amen Brother.

The law reflects the Holiness of God that not one of us could live out.

God gave men the commandments to reveal His Holiness and His standard and to show men that they are sinners in need of a Savior

No man could keep that Law . Christ did for us what we could not do for ourselves .

Act 13:38 Be it known unto you therefore, men [and] brethren, that through this man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins:

Act 13:39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster [to bring us] unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster

Those that try to steer their own car and save themselves by works need to consider the words of Paul

Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law [is] the knowledge of sin.

Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;

Rom 3:22 Even the righteousness of God [which is] by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

I ask any reader that has never asked the Spirit of God to reveal the truth of the Gospel to do so . Ask for faith to believe.

96 posted on 09/03/2005 7:19:06 AM PDT by RnMomof7 (Sola Scriptura,Sola Christus,Sola Gratia,Sola Fide,Soli Deo Gloria)
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To: Quester; bonfire; RnMomof7
A long weekend and a busy week, so I'm slow responding.


"God requires that we obey all of his commands. And who can hope to accomplish this in this life ? Do you ?"

That's the goal, Quester, absolutely, and I will stake my soul on nothing less. The Lord is gracious to those who love Him and keep His Commandments and he gave us Commandments, not options.

"Do you truly believe that your salvation depends upon your perfect execution of God's Will ? Wasn't that Jesus' task ?"

I think this is confusing two separate issues--the redemptive work of Christ, and the responsibility of the believer. If Salvation depends solely on the Holy and Perfect Sacrifice of Christ on the cross, then it would follow that everyone is saved, regardless of their actions and beliefs. If on the other hand, the individual has responsibility, then we may well ask what that is. In the context of the passage at hand, the question is put quite explicitly to Jesus. If I will inherit eternal life, then what must I do?

I must keep the commandments, "Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself."; And if I want to be perfect, this passage indicates to me, that I must give away everything I have, and follow Christ. Seems like a good trade to me. Going back to Matthew 19:

""What good deed must I do to have eternal life.
What Jesus, essentially, says to him is ...."Well, if you are going to do it ... you must be perfect."


Let's not alter the Scripture. What he says is: if you want to inherit eternal life, keep the Commandments. He does not say that if you are going to enter eternal life, you must be perfect, although he does indeed tell the young man what he may do in order to be perfect.


"And as an example of how that young man could not live perfectly, ... when Jesus asked him to sell all that he had to give to the poor, ... the young man balked, and went away sadly, ... for he knew that he could not do it himself. It was impossible for him."

It certainly would not have been impossible for him to give away everything he owned and follow Christ, Peter explains a few verses later that he and the rest of the Apostles have done exactly that, and Jesus assures him that they will be richly rewarded and recieve eternal life. Rather, the young man is called by Christ to follow Him, and refuses to answer the call because his wealth is more important to him than following Christ. There is no assumption that the young man's questions are being answered by assuming Christ will not offer himself up as a Holy and Perfect Sacrifice. God asks nothing impossible of us. In this passage, the young man is told by Christ that if he would enter eternal life, he must keep the commandments. He responds saying that he has done this. Christ does not challenge him and say it's impossible, rather, in response to the young man's question, "what more must I do," he tells him to come and follow Him.

"So ... the true lesson here is that ... if you're depending upon yourself for your salvation, you're in an impossible situation. "

This is not the message of this passage, at all. This passage is explicitly addressing the question of what the individual must do to enter eternal life. The question is not being asked hypothetically of what would have to be done in the absence of the Sacrifice on the Cross, it is specifically addressing the responsibility of the believer. In this case, it is something hard, but not impossible, for as it tells us in this passage in verse 26, with God, all things are possible.

"And we are saved ... to love ... God and our neighbor."

Respectfully, I would say that we are created to Love God and our neighbor, and that God will save those who do so.

"The imperative for the saved individual ... is love.


Again, I'm not seeing the part about individuals being already saved in the NT, perhaps you could show me where you are seeing that.

"If one does not manifest love, ... than it can be fairly reasoned that one has not received that gift of love from God. "

Not sure what you mean by saying that one has not received the gift of love from God, perhaps you could clarify. I would assert, however, that it is entirely possible to receive a gift from God, and to not use it, as the parable of the talents illustrates. As far as the passage in question, 1 Cor: 13, it tells us that faith without love is meaningless, hence the problem with the formulation that we are saved by faith alone. " if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing." (1 Cor 13) Heaven is a place that has been prepared for those who love the Lord, and again, I'm not seeing the passage that says that people have been guaranteed salvation already following their initial conversion to Christ. Rather we must persevere through trials in order that we will be saved.
"Blessed is the man who endures trial, for when he has stood the test he will receive the crown of life which God has promised to those who love him." (James 1:12)

166 posted on 09/08/2005 9:50:16 PM PDT by InterestedQuestioner ("Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved.")
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