Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

To: Quester; bonfire; RnMomof7
A long weekend and a busy week, so I'm slow responding.


"God requires that we obey all of his commands. And who can hope to accomplish this in this life ? Do you ?"

That's the goal, Quester, absolutely, and I will stake my soul on nothing less. The Lord is gracious to those who love Him and keep His Commandments and he gave us Commandments, not options.

"Do you truly believe that your salvation depends upon your perfect execution of God's Will ? Wasn't that Jesus' task ?"

I think this is confusing two separate issues--the redemptive work of Christ, and the responsibility of the believer. If Salvation depends solely on the Holy and Perfect Sacrifice of Christ on the cross, then it would follow that everyone is saved, regardless of their actions and beliefs. If on the other hand, the individual has responsibility, then we may well ask what that is. In the context of the passage at hand, the question is put quite explicitly to Jesus. If I will inherit eternal life, then what must I do?

I must keep the commandments, "Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself."; And if I want to be perfect, this passage indicates to me, that I must give away everything I have, and follow Christ. Seems like a good trade to me. Going back to Matthew 19:

""What good deed must I do to have eternal life.
What Jesus, essentially, says to him is ...."Well, if you are going to do it ... you must be perfect."


Let's not alter the Scripture. What he says is: if you want to inherit eternal life, keep the Commandments. He does not say that if you are going to enter eternal life, you must be perfect, although he does indeed tell the young man what he may do in order to be perfect.


"And as an example of how that young man could not live perfectly, ... when Jesus asked him to sell all that he had to give to the poor, ... the young man balked, and went away sadly, ... for he knew that he could not do it himself. It was impossible for him."

It certainly would not have been impossible for him to give away everything he owned and follow Christ, Peter explains a few verses later that he and the rest of the Apostles have done exactly that, and Jesus assures him that they will be richly rewarded and recieve eternal life. Rather, the young man is called by Christ to follow Him, and refuses to answer the call because his wealth is more important to him than following Christ. There is no assumption that the young man's questions are being answered by assuming Christ will not offer himself up as a Holy and Perfect Sacrifice. God asks nothing impossible of us. In this passage, the young man is told by Christ that if he would enter eternal life, he must keep the commandments. He responds saying that he has done this. Christ does not challenge him and say it's impossible, rather, in response to the young man's question, "what more must I do," he tells him to come and follow Him.

"So ... the true lesson here is that ... if you're depending upon yourself for your salvation, you're in an impossible situation. "

This is not the message of this passage, at all. This passage is explicitly addressing the question of what the individual must do to enter eternal life. The question is not being asked hypothetically of what would have to be done in the absence of the Sacrifice on the Cross, it is specifically addressing the responsibility of the believer. In this case, it is something hard, but not impossible, for as it tells us in this passage in verse 26, with God, all things are possible.

"And we are saved ... to love ... God and our neighbor."

Respectfully, I would say that we are created to Love God and our neighbor, and that God will save those who do so.

"The imperative for the saved individual ... is love.


Again, I'm not seeing the part about individuals being already saved in the NT, perhaps you could show me where you are seeing that.

"If one does not manifest love, ... than it can be fairly reasoned that one has not received that gift of love from God. "

Not sure what you mean by saying that one has not received the gift of love from God, perhaps you could clarify. I would assert, however, that it is entirely possible to receive a gift from God, and to not use it, as the parable of the talents illustrates. As far as the passage in question, 1 Cor: 13, it tells us that faith without love is meaningless, hence the problem with the formulation that we are saved by faith alone. " if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing." (1 Cor 13) Heaven is a place that has been prepared for those who love the Lord, and again, I'm not seeing the passage that says that people have been guaranteed salvation already following their initial conversion to Christ. Rather we must persevere through trials in order that we will be saved.
"Blessed is the man who endures trial, for when he has stood the test he will receive the crown of life which God has promised to those who love him." (James 1:12)

166 posted on 09/08/2005 9:50:16 PM PDT by InterestedQuestioner ("Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 92 | View Replies ]


To: InterestedQuestioner; Quester; bonfire; RnMomof7

***and I will stake my soul on nothing less***

You are staking your soul on your ability to obey the commands?

Galatians 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.



***If Salvation depends solely on the Holy and Perfect Sacrifice of Christ on the cross, then it would follow that everyone is saved, regardless of their actions and beliefs.***

The work of Christ is only effective for those who accept it by faith - no one else.


***If I will inherit eternal life, then what must I do?... I must keep the commandments, ***

You will surely fail.

For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, "Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them." Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for "The righteous shall live by faith." - Gal 3


Have you kept the 10 commandment perfectly - even for one day - in your entire life?


169 posted on 09/08/2005 10:09:36 PM PDT by PetroniusMaximus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 166 | View Replies ]

To: InterestedQuestioner

Re: "I must keep the commandments,"


Go to this site and take a brief test - http://www.needgod.com/


170 posted on 09/08/2005 10:15:10 PM PDT by PetroniusMaximus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 166 | View Replies ]

To: InterestedQuestioner
I must keep the commandments, "Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself."; And if I want to be perfect, this passage indicates to me, that I must give away everything I have, and follow Christ. Seems like a good trade to me."

Have you done so ... ?

Have you allowed the Lord to have perfect control over every area of your your life ?

Does what you want ... never ... take first priority ... over what God wants ?"

The student of the scriptures understands that there are (2) valid answers to the question ... "What must I do to have everlasting life ?"

There is the "Old Testament" answer ...

... and there is the "New Testament" answer.

The Old Testament answer is ... "Be perfect in following the commands of God ... and you will be saved."

The New Testament answer is ... "Accept God's gracious offer of His Son's sacrificial death as an atonement for your sins ... and you will be saved."

Jesus gave the "Old Testament" answer to the young man ... because He discerned that the young man was not ready to receive the "New Testament" answer.

However, ... if you check out chapter three of the gospel of John, ... you will see that Jesus gives Nicodemus, another seeker ... an entirely different answer ...
John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Now Nicodemus does not immediately understand what Christ is saying ... so he asks further of Him ...
John 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
And Jesus goes on to further declare ...
John 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:

15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.


17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Now ... clearly the answer Jesus gave Nicodemus ... is a dirrent one from the one He gave the young ruler.

Once again ... this is because there are (2) valid answers to the question.

The answer Jesus gave the young man, the "Old Testament" answer ... is according to the law.

OTOH, ... the answer Jesus gave Nicodemus, the "New Testament" answer ... is according to grace.

Both answers to this question are still valid today.

Which answer we choose ... depends on who we want to do to work ... for us to attain everlasting life.

If we are going to do the work ... as when the young man said, ... "What good deed must I do ... ?" ... then we must perfectly obey the cammandments of God.

However, ... God had graciously granted us the option ... of allowing Jesus to do the work for us.

Jesus lived a perfect life, ... and so, ... qualifies as that perfect sacrifice ... by which our sins may be atoned for to God.

Per Jesus' own words, ... we only need put our trust in Him to save us (i.e. believe on Him) ... to be gifted with God's gift of everlasting life.
John 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

You know ... the reality for us as the sons and daughters of Adam ... is that we are drowning in a sea of sin.

The further reality is that ... we cannot save ourselves from sin.

But, exactly like a faithful lifeguard ... Jesus has come to us in our dilemna ... and desires to save us.

Now ... life guards will tell you that ... when they swim out to to save a person that is drowning ... for that person to be saved ... the drowning person must give up on trying to save themselves ... for them trying to save themselves ... makes the lifeguard's task impossible.

To be saved ... the drowning person must cease his/her own struggles to save him/herself ... and allow the lifeguard to do everything that needs to be done.

That's how people are saved from drowning.

And ... that's how we are saved from sin.

But the truth is ... you can continue to struggle on your own.

Only ... as Petronius has stated ... you will surely fail.

Or ... you can allow Jesus to do for you ... what you cannot do ... and be saved.

The choice ... is up to you.

You know ... Jesus told the Jewish religious leaders to ...
Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me. John 5:39
Search the scriptures ... Jesus is there.

If you will search the scriptures ... I believe that you will find that what I have presented to you is true ...

... and even if not ... you will surely find Jesus ... and His truth.
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

---------------------------------------------------------

John 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

177 posted on 09/09/2005 6:55:10 AM PDT by Quester (When in doubt ... trust God!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 166 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson