[InterestedQuestioner]

Scubienuc,

I can lead a horse to water, but I can't make it drink. The bible doesn't say we are saved by faith alone, anywhere.

It's a very simple fact.

And again, that tradition was invented in the 16th century by Martin Luther, it was simply not taught before then, for the simple reason that it's not in the Bible, and not a tradition of the Church.

As for James 2:24, if it doesn't say we are not saved by faith alone, then why did Martin attempt to remove the Epistle of James from Scripture? Go look at his introduction to it, he says it's not Scriptural. Called it an Epistle of Straw, and generally spoke of it being something that was good to start the fireplace with.

Finally, the whole speaking to the "saved" argument is based on an ungrammatical use of the English Language. The promise of the Bible is not that you "got saved" because you had a conversion experience, it's that those who Believe (present tense, ongoing,) will be saved (future tense). That is the assurance of Christ. Or were you working from another verse?

"BELIEVE in the Lord Jesus and you WILL be saved."

There are no people walking around in the New Testament asking each other, "when did you git saved?" Perhaps someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but there were probably no people who held that belief before the 1800's, and I'll bet that one is an American Invention.

The people in the New Testament are being saved, by the Grace of God, through a faith, working in love. God has done his work in Christ, and now it is up to the believer to persevere to the end, that he may be saved.

[ScubieNuc]

I can see that you and I will probably never agree as to what is a Biblical fact or not.

As a side question, Do you know for sure where you will spend eternity when you die? If you don't want to clog up this forum, feel free to freepmail me.

Shalom

[Quester]

There are no people walking around in the New Testament asking each other, "when did you git saved?" Perhaps someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but there were probably no people who held that belief before the 1800's, and I'll bet that one is an American Invention.

Peter certainly treats the idea of having been saved as a 'fait accompli' ...

1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of God: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.

[Quester]

The writer to the Hebrews appears to recognize believers are, rather, 'after the fact' son (and daughters), as well.

Refer to my previous post.