Bishop Fellay of the Society of St. Pius X to Meet Pope August 29

SSPX e-mail ^ | 16 August 2005 | Bishop Williamson

[Mershon]

And your posts show the true "spirit" of ecumenism ordered by the Second Vatican Council and truly heeding the "seeking out one lost sheep" of Sacred Scripture.

I cannot wait until this reunification takes place. I cannot wait.

We'll see who the true apes will be then... We certainly will.

[RFT1]

I hate to say this, but many people that have become anti Traditional such as I Shawn McIlheny and a few posters here seem to fallen into the cult of personality that the papacy of Pope John Paul II(and to be fair this was not his intention) became in its later years. It seems to be the different side of the same coin that many traditionals on the other side have not only become Sedes but even become in effect, almost calvanist puritians(the snide remarks made at traditional Catholic youth at WYD attire)

[sitetest]

Dear Mershon,

Hey, I was just trying to offer a little brotherly correction to bornacatholic.

He'd misrepresented a key part of the primary conspiracy theory most commonly posted at FR concerning the "misdeeds" of the Vatican concerning the Third Secret of Fatima.

Unlike some posters around here, bornacatholic cares about those rare occasions when he may misrepresent what others have said, invites brotherly correction, and admits to fault.

You can see that he concedes to my correction in #57.

Would that all posters follow his good example when they are found to have misrepresented others.

;-)


sitetest

[bornacatholic]

LOL I may have to dig out my old vinyl of the Kinks I'm an ape man

Well, it is certainly true to observe I did not engage in false irenecism :)

Btw, your reference to ecumenism is appreciated. Not many self-annointed trads admit the sspx is not in the church. Are you now conceeding Vatican Two is authoritative and binding ?

BTW, I forgot to give you kudos for your response to Bulldog Catholic's post about supposed heresy of the Pope.

Kudos

[bornacatholic]

. Does that make them cults?

* I happily proclaim I am in the Cult of Christ. How's 'bout you?

[bornacatholic]

Hey, no fair. I think John Paul II the Great is a Saint, but as far as me being a part of the cult of personality, I know no secret handshakes and that tatoo of him I have on my back is merely whimsical and no indication I am part of the JP II cult.

As to Mr. McElhinney, who along with Mr. Vere wrote a piece for the Wanderer called, roughly, why we are traditionalists, he claims to be a traditionalist; so does Mr. Vere.

So, as it appears one becomes a traditionalist by a self-annointing, how does one, such as yourself, gain the authority to claim he isn't a traditionalist?

BTW, any Catholic who maintains the Bonds of Unity in Worship, Doctrine, and Auhtority is axiomatically a traditionalist due to the Doctrine that it is Rome, not a schism or an individual , who defines what is and isn't Tradition.

To the tune of "Dr. Pepper"

I'm a traddie

Site's a Traddie

Dom's a traddie

Wouldn't you like to be a Traddie too?

[bornacatholic]

Amen, brother. In is not outside the realm of possibility Lucy was kidnapped and replaced with an impostor double and taken to the same cave underneath St. Peter's where she was imprisoned along with Pope Paul VI who, obviously, was similarly kidnapped and replaced with a double.

Speaking of "double," I feel like it is almost time for a Coulombe cocktail :)

[Gerard.P]

Williamson is one of the most clear thinking people in the World today. Certainly one of the only Bishops with guts.
Maybe a few hot tempered 80+ year old Italians in Rome who still have the faith and no power can stand alongside him.

He's also the worst nightmare for Modernists ever. His clarity cuts through the gobbledygook of Vatican II-speak like a buzz saw.

Williamson is a delight, an inspiration and when you hear him speak, you realize what is meant by the "spirit of combat that Catholics used to exhibit."

On top of all of that, he's a very pious and holy man. Very gentle with people and an unbending defender of the rights and prerogatives of the Catholic Church.

[Siobhan]

Su rof yarp, Amitaf fo Ydal Ruo. Sloof era ew. Ytip evah.

[Dominick]

Gerard.P wrote:
Williamson is one of the most clear thinking people in the World today.

QUOTE:
"there was not one Jew killed in the gas chambers. It was all lies, lies, lies. The Jews created the Holocaust so we would prostrate ourselves on our knees before them and approve of their new State of Israel.... Jews made up the Holocaust, Protestants get their orders from the devil, and the Vatican has sold its soul to liberalism."

QUOTE:
"By remarkable circumstances it reached the West, where it should be far better known than it is, but of course the modern world has a thousand ways of smothering its own dirty secrets. God puts in men's hands the "Protocols of the Sages of Sion" and the "Rakovsky Interview", if men want to know the truth, but few do."

QUOTE:
""And secondly, down 2,000 years Jews have repeatedly sought to undermine the Catholic Church and to take Christ out of Christendom "

MMMMKay, clear thinking......

[Dionysiusdecordealcis]

No, "fringe" modified "Fatima"--if you had read carefully you would have noticed. In my view both an authentic, faithful devotion to Our Lady of Fatima, among whose membership I count myself, and an extremist devotion can be identified. The latter involves people who have adopted a black helicopter approach to Fatima and the question of the third secret. They stand in relation to the mainstream Catholic devotion to the events of 1917 as the black helicopter crowd stands in relation to a healthy conservative suspicion of government.

I did not in any way criticize those who believe Our Lady appeared to three children at Fatima and I really don't appreciate your assumption that I was attacking all who believe in Fatima. What I wrote was grammatically quite clear. There are fringe groups who employ Fatima as a vehicle for wholesale attacks on every pope since 1917 and who have become virtually schismatic in their vitriol. That's what "fringe" meant--they truly are on the fringes of a broad stream of authentic devotion to Fatima. The article in question clearly took as its premise that Cardinal Ratzinger was involved in a diabolical conspiracy to prevent the "true" (in the eyes of the fringe) handling of the third secret from taking place.

[Gerard.P]

As if this hasn't been dealt with before.

Please provide the sentence before and after quote #1.

Answer: You won't find it. It doesn't exist. As an aside, disputing the details of the Holocaust right or wrong is not an article of faith in the Catholic Church. It's worth researching at least to find out if Jews were really made into lampshades and soap or not. Details of the Holocaust are still being fought over on the ADL's website. The liberals want homosexuals as part of the holocaust but the conservatives have been claiming the Nazis were all homosexual as part of their legacy. And they don't want homosexuals to be included as part of the total killed.



Quote #2 The book is fiction yet makes uncanny parallels to the behaviors of those who are enemies of the Catholic Church. Much like Taylor Caldwell and the robber barons. Also, The Freemasons poo poo the papal publications of the Permanent Instruction of the Alta Vendita in the same vein.

Quote #3 Mel Gibson and the treatment of the Passion of the Christ by Rabbis Marvin Heir and Abe Foxman show the truth of bishop Williamson's statement. By the way, having heard Williamson speak on these issues, he prefaces his comments with "I by no means mean "all Jews" or "all Freemasons. I'm specifically referring to those that are overt enemies of Our Lord Jesus Christ and His Church". And considering he has had a Rabbi as a guest at the seminary in order to teach a special area of Medieval history, it's hardly plausible that he's the raving anti-semite that enemies of traditional Catholics claim he is. First person experience puts the lie to those internet claims.

If you want to discuss this further, I'll be frequenting the Angelqueen.org forums from now on.

[BulldogCatholic]

Beware of the wolf in sheeps clothing, I would rather face someone who is openly anti catholic than one who acts Catholic but is really a sell out. As the world glorified JPII, is this really the Vicar of Christ? Can you compare how these other "false faiths" worshipped JPII as compared to St Peter who was crucified upside down? The Post Vatican II Popes are a fraud and the wolf leading their sheep to damnation unfortunatly as evidenced by the grab the devil has over the Novus Ordo priesthood

On the death of Pope John Paul II:

Religious leaders from across the country praised Pope John Paul II on Saturday, saying the pope aggressively reached out to other faiths and inspired people worldwide.

The pope "revolutionized Catholic-Jewish relations," said Abraham Foxman, national director of the Anti-Defamation League. Foxman said the pope "normalized" relations with Jews and cited John Paul II's pilgrimage to the Holy Land.
"He was a man of God in every sense and a true friend whose visionary leadership will be sorely missed," Foxman said.

"Pope John Paul II was unquestionably the most influential voice for morality and peace in the world during the last 100 years," said the Rev. Billy Graham. "His extraordinary gifts, his strong Catholic faith, and his experience of human tyranny and suffering in his native Poland all shaped him, and yet he was respected by men and women from every conceivable background across the world."

"I think evangelicals also recognize that in the passing of John Paul II we may never see his likes again, and there's a real sense of loss in that even as we continue to be greatly concerned about the institution of the papacy, we have great admiration for the man," said R. Albert Mohler Jr., president of The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary.

"The pope was a man of true peace and justice," said Pawan Deshpande, a member of the Hindu American Foundation Executive Council. "His strong commitment to human rights, democracy and interreligious dialogue will not be forgotten."

The Rev. C. Welton Gaddy, president of the Interfaith Alliance, said the pope "modeled unselfish compassion."
He said the pope served as an example of how people of various faiths — or no faith — "can live and work together while enhancing the quality of life for all people."

The pope "provided inspiration and leadership, not only to Roman Catholics but also to the greater Christian world and beyond with his uncompromising stances in favor of life and against the culture of death," said the Rev. Gerald B. Kieschnick, president of the Lutheran Church — Missouri Synod.

"His voice and moral authority gave inspiration and hope to millions well beyond the Roman Catholic Church," said the Rev. Frank Griswold, presiding bishop of the Episcopal Church USA, in seeming to sum up the feelings of many ministers.

Gospel according to St John Chapter 15

17 These things I command you, that you love one another.
18 If the world hate you, know ye, that it hath hated me before you.
19 If you had been of the world, the world would love its own: but because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
20 Remember my word that I said to you: The servant is not greater than his master. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you: if they have kept my word, they will keep yours also.
21 But all these things they will do to you for my name's sake: because they know not him who sent me.
22 If I had not come, and spoken to them, they would not have sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin.
23 He that hateth me, hateth my Father also.

Epistle of St. James Chapter 4

4 Adulterers, know you not that the friendship of this world is the enemy of God? Whosoever therefore will be a friend of this world, becometh an enemy of God.
5 Or do you think that the scripture saith in vain: To envy doth the spirit covet which dwelleth in you?
6 But he giveth greater grace. Wherefore he saith: God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.

[BulldogCatholic]

Ahhh yes, the anti semitism card the liberal novus ordoians must play when they reach into their ammunition and find nothing but blanks

And let me ask you, are you naive enough to actually think that the Jews of the world actually love Catholics and Christ? Is there not zionism today? Was it not the zionists as recently as the 1930's and 40's who were bombing and blowing up the British in Palestine to get them out, the "original terrorists"? Are you actually fooled enough to believe that we are the evil Catholics and the rest of the world loves us? Do you really believe what you were taught in school how wonderful the French Revolution was while they ommitted that countless religious were murdered by the Masons and yes, the Jews?

The same for the Crusades. We are fed this nonsense in school and made to apologize for the Crusades, when it was the Moslems who were enslaving the Christian pilgrims to the holy land. Who actually controls the media? If you look at who controls the 3 networks like CBS (Monves), FOX news (Murdoch) and ABC (Disney and Eisner) they sure are not Catholic!

No one is ever ever condoning violence in any way against anyone, and anyone denying the holocaust should have their head examined, but if you actually think that there is not anti catholicism you have been fed this post Vatican II ecumenism garbage just as the church and those bent on destroying the faith intended

[dsc]

"These people really are nuts."

Funny that here, on a conservative site, the conservative Catholics are "nuts" and the leftists are held up as good examples.

[dsc]

"First, they continue to presume to set themselves up in judgment over the Pope."

Do they?

If there is any authority superior to the Holy Father, short of the Holy Trinity, it is the Church itself.

If obedience to the Church itself involves disobedience to the Holy Father, is that really "setting yourself up in judgment?"

It is historical fact that there have been bad popes, and I think it is clear that there is a point at which each of us would disobey a bad pope.

Therefore, the question is whether that point has been reached, not whether anyone is "setting himself up in judgment."

[dsc]

"It's my understanding that Rome is holding out her hand and all that the SSPX has to do is grasp it. I pray that they do."

Sure. All they have to do is agree to concelebrate the Novus Ordo.

Sort of like two friends who fight because one commits adultery with the other's wife. The adulterer says, "Let's stop this fighting. I'll shake your hand on the condition that I get to keep diddling your wife." Then the wronged husband is castigated for declining.

[Hermann the Cherusker]

I don't believe anyone has accused SSPX of being heretical.

The Feeneyites have.

[Dominick]

Oh please child, Williamson a clear thinker? Three easy quotes to put that in doubt. None of it was hard to find. All of it is easily sourced to his own writings. I would not post it if I didn't have a source for it, like sspx.ca

At least it is my own work, and not copied from somewhere else without attribution to Williamson himself.

No, the Conservatives and Catholics here know the difference between actual fealty to the Holy See and the false "filial loyalty" of the SSPX and Sedes. Thats why we read FR.

Speaking to the broad audience here; most Conservatives can see the difference between actual Traditional Catholics, who attend Indults, and those pretend traditionalists, who discard obedience, and the authority of the Church part of Tradition, but retain many of the outer trappings of the 1962 Missal.

Many in the SSPX are just Cafeteria Catholics, picking and choosing what to believe from the Faith.

Sometimes schism makes strange bedfellows, and where a man has the basic lack of discernment to tell people the "protocols of sion" is an authority on the way things "really" are, then you are in bed with a really really strange fellow.

Judging from your post, you subscribe to a similar warped sense of reality. Jewish Guerrillas hardly invented that sort of warfare, as most people in North Africa can tell you. Many Jewish people lived in Morocco and would have seen the success the desert raiders had on the French. Thinking the Jews were terrorists also minimizes the crimes and pogroms of the Ottoman Empire.

Do I think there is anti-Catholicism, sure I do, a front in the Anti-catholic war is the Sedes like you, and many in the SSPX. While I hope Fellay and many others return to the Church in a capacity as a Bishop, I hope that Williamson gets a "non-Promotion" to study something somewhere, where he can be kept out of trouble.

I said it before, and I will say it again, Williamson will probably not return to Rome, this note attempting to poison the well before the meeting is evidence that souls are going to be lost in this schism.

[Hermann the Cherusker]

How can you steal a lie?

Are lies owned by the liar?

Can you be forced to give them back in restitution?

Maybe we should really say he joined the liar in lying.