Constantine Wrote Matthew 28:19 Into Your Bible!

Israel of God ^ | September 15, 2001 | Lon Martin

[TradicalRC]

So God made two men, one with gray hair, and a dove. (sarcasm)

No. That is a deliberate misreading of what I posted. Let us make man(singular) in OUR image(plural). When a man and a women have a child it is not automatically one boy and one girl although the child usually has traits from both. My point is that Elohim refers to the Trinitarian God as elucidated by Christ.

[navygal]

Would this qualify too?

Isaiah 43:10-12 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)


10Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

11I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

12I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed, when there was no strange god among you: therefore ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, that I am God.

[navygal]

Thanks for those scriptures!! You may want to look at post 42 and add to these scriptures.

[Zuriel]

The word 'begotten' implies a beginning. Quite the opposite of 'eternal'.

**After the resurrection, Christ ascended into heaven to sit at the right hand of God.**

That's symbolic of the place of power, for God is a Spirit. How does one sit on the right hand of a spirit? The Tabernacle in the wilderness was made 'by the hand of Moses'. We know that Moses was in the place of authority, and appointed the construction to various tribes. The simple movement of an emperor's right hand could mean life or death.

The Son is eternal in plan only. He was not literally begotten until Mary conceived. And as 'asformeandformyhouse' pointed out, the office of the Sonship will come to an end, having fulfilled its purpose.

The Father is 'Spirit' (John 4:23,24) and the Son, flesh (complete with a soul)

The salutations in the epistles thank God the Father (Spirit) and Jesus Christ, who alone shed his blood for our sins (and in whom the Father dwells) and the Holy Ghost(that portion of the Spirit of God that the Father has poured out, through Jesus Christ, on believers; see Acts 2:33)

"For in Him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily". Col. 2:9

American history for the 'oneness doctrine'? I don't put a lot of faith in uninspired recorded history. I am told, that through the centuries, people that believed the 'mighty God in Christ' (oneness) were persecuted, and therefore had to be careful when spreading the Word. I'm told that John Calvin had a man executed for teaching 'oneness'. Those things I'm told from mans' recorded history, and subject to imperfect reporting.

On an unrelated note: 27 yrs of wedded bliss today, she says let's go to Galena (IL). NOW!

Bye

[amosmoses]

On an unrelated note: 27 yrs of wedded bliss today, she says let's go to Galena (IL). NOW!

Be safe :)

[amosmoses]

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Early Trinitarian Quotes

There are cult groups (Jehovah's Witnesses, The Way International, Christadelphians, etc.) who deny the Trinity and state that the doctrine was not mentioned until the 4th Century until after the time of the Council of Nicea (325). This council "was called by Emperor Constantine to deal with the error of Arianism [see page 45] which was threatening the unity of the Christian Church."
The following quotes show that the doctrine of the Trinity was indeed alive-and-well before the Council of Nicea.

Polycarp (70-155/160). Bishop of Smyrna. Disciple of John the Apostle.
"O Lord God almighty...I bless you and glorify you through the eternal and heavenly high priest Jesus Christ, your beloved Son, through whom be glory to you, with Him and the Holy Spirit, both now and forever" (n. 14, ed. Funk; PG 5.1040).

Justin Martyr (100?-165?). He was a Christian apologist and martyr.
"For, in the name of God, the Father and Lord of the universe, and of our Savior Jesus Christ, and of the Holy Spirit, they then receive the washing with water" (First Apol., LXI).

Ignatius of Antioch (died 98/117). Bishop of Antioch. He wrote much in defense of Christianity.
"In Christ Jesus our Lord, by whom and with whom be glory and power to the Father with the Holy Spirit for ever" (n. 7; PG 5.988).
"We have also as a Physician the Lord our God Jesus the Christ the only-begotten Son and Word, before time began, but who afterwards became also man, of Mary the virgin. For ‘the Word was made flesh.' Being incorporeal, He was in the body; being impassible, He was in a passable body; being immortal, He was in a mortal body; being life, He became subject to corruption, that He might free our souls from death and corruption, and heal them, and might restore them to health, when they were diseased with ungodliness and wicked lusts." (Alexander Roberts and James Donaldson, eds., The ante-Nicene Fathers, Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1975 rpt., Vol. 1, p. 52, Ephesians 7.)

Irenaeus (115-190). As a boy he listened to Polycarp, the disciple of John. He became Bishop of Lyons.
"The Church, though dispersed throughout the whole world, even to the ends of the earth, has received from the apostles and their disciples this faith: ...one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are in them; and in one Christ Jesus, the Son of God, who became incarnate for our salvation; and in the Holy Spirit, who proclaimed through the prophets the dispensations of God, and the advents, and the birth from a virgin, and the passion, and the resurrection from the dead, and the ascension into heaven in the flesh of the beloved Christ Jesus, our Lord, and His manifestation from heaven in the glory of the Father ‘to gather all things in one,' and to raise up anew all flesh of the whole human race, in order that to Christ Jesus, our Lord, and God, and Savior, and King, according to the will of the invisible Father, ‘every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth, and that every tongue should confess; to him, and that He should execute just judgment towards all...'" (Against Heresies X.l)

Tertullian (160-215). African apologist and theologian. He wrote much in defense of Christianity.
"We define that there are two, the Father and the Son, and three with the Holy Spirit, and this number is made by the pattern of salvation...[which] brings about unity in trinity, interrelating the three, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. They are three, not in dignity, but in degree, not in substance but in form, not in power but in kind. They are of one substance and power, because there is one God from whom these degrees, forms and kinds devolve in the name of Father, Son and Holy Spirit." (Adv. Prax. 23; PL 2.156-7).

Origen (185-254). Alexandrian theologian. Defended Christianity and wrote much about Christianity.
"If anyone would say that the Word of God or the Wisdom of God had a beginning, let him beware lest he direct his impiety rather against the unbegotten Father, since he denies that he was always Father, and that he has always begotten the Word, and that he always had wisdom in all previous times or ages or whatever can be imagined in priority...There can be no more ancient title of almighty God than that of Father, and it is through the Son that he is Father" (De Princ. 1.2.; PG 11.132).
"For if [the Holy Spirit were not eternally as He is, and had received knowledge at some time and then became the Holy Spirit] this were the case, the Holy Spirit would never be reckoned in the unity of the Trinity, i.e., along with the unchangeable Father and His Son, unless He had always been the Holy Spirit." (Alexander Roberts and James Donaldson, eds., The Ante-Nicene Fathers, Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1975 rpt., Vol. 4, p. 253, de Principiis, 1.111.4)
"Moreover, nothing in the Trinity can be called greater or less, since the fountain of divinity alone contains all things by His word and reason, and by the Spirit of His mouth sanctifies all things which are worthy of sanctification..." (Roberts and Donaldson, Ante-Nicene Fathers, Vol. 4, p. 255, de Principii., I. iii. 7).


If, as the anti-Trinitarians maintain, the Trinity is not a biblical doctrine and was never taught until the council of Nicea in 325, then why do these quotes exist? The answer is simple: the Trinity is a biblical doctrine and it was taught before the council of Nicea in 325 A.D.
Part of the reason that the Trinity doctrine was not "officially" taught until the time of the Council of Nicea is because Christianity was illegal until shortly before the council. It wasn't really possible for official Christian groups to meet and discuss doctrine. For the most part, they were fearful of making public pronouncements concerning their faith.
Additionally, if a group had attacked the person of Adam, the early church would have responded with an official doctrine of who Adam was. As it was, the person of Christ was attacked. When the Church defended the deity of Christ, the doctrine of the Trinity was further defined.
The early church believed in the Trinity, as is evidenced by the quotes above, and it wasn't necessary to really make them official. It wasn't until errors started to creep in, that councils began to meet to discuss the Trinity as well as other doctrines that came under fire.

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[OLD REGGIE]

Would this qualify too?

A Christian would say that Isaiah, see Isaiah 42:1 speaks of Jesus and only Jesus. You may note by my tagline that I don't profess to know anything. I can't find that Jesus ever claimed to be the One God nor do I believe it is necessary to accept the "developed" belief in the Trinity for our salvation.

[navygal]

I do not claim to know it all either, but sometimes I do think of the verse " The word became flesh". I am still learning just like you.

Be Bless

Navygal

[asformeandformyhouse]

I can't find that Jesus ever claimed to be the One God nor do I believe it is necessary to accept the "developed" belief in the Trinity for our salvation.

I've always felt that Jesus did just that in John 8:58 when he invoked the name of God. I believe the Jews understood precisely what he was saying as they took up stones to kill him for what they percieved to be blasphemy

John 8:58  Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I Am.
59  Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

[OLD REGGIE]

I do not claim to know it all either, but sometimes I do think of the verse " The word became flesh". I am still learning just like you.

Oh I dunno. The longer I live, the more I learn, the less I "know".

I've decided to just leave it in the hands of the Lord. :)

[OLD REGGIE]

I've always felt that Jesus did just that in John 8:58 when he invoked the name of God.

I agree it is a very powerful Christian argument and I have no objection towards those who believe it. There are contra arguments however.

See here for one example.

[streetpreacher]

Let's not leave out the United Pentecostal version:

18
Then Jesus approached and said to them, "All power in heaven and on earth has been given to me... by my Father... which is really Me.
19
Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of Jesus, and of Jesus, and of Jesus,
20
teaching their women to observe long hair, long skirts and no makeup. 13 And behold, I (the Son Jesus, not the Father Jesus) am with you always, until the end of the age."

[Petronski]

That's impressive. So many words, so little effect.

[1000 silverlings]

There won't be any giving of the Holy Spirit unless you are baptized in Jesus' name. Acts 19:1-5

[1000 silverlings]

The baptism comes from God the Father, through Jesus and the power in the reborn is manifested by the Holy Spirit. So being baptized in Jesus' name, is the mediary between the source and the power, all biblically sound.

[Salvation]

**The formula of baptizing in the name of Jesus does not negate the clear teaching of Scripture of the Three Eternal Persons of the Godhead.**

So let's pretend that a dove representing the Holy Spirit and the voice of God the Father speaking "This is my beloved Son, listen to him." never happened when John the Baptist bapized Jesus Christ in the Jordan??

I think you are sadly mistaken.

[Salvation]

**The formula of baptizing in the name of Jesus does not negate the clear teaching of Scripture of the Three Eternal Persons of the Godhead.**

8

⁵ I have baptized you with water; he will baptize you with the holy Spirit."

9

It happened in those days that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee and was baptized in the Jordan by John.

10

On coming up out of the water he saw the heavens being torn open and the Spirit, like a dove, descending upon him. ⁶

 

And the footnotes:

5

[8-9] Through the life-giving baptism with the holy Spirit (Mark 1:8), Jesus will create a new people of God. But first he identifies himself with the people of Israel in submitting to John's baptism of repentance and in bearing on their behalf the burden of God's decisive judgment (Mark 1:9; cf Mark 1:4). As in the desert of Sinai, so here in the wilderness of Judea, Israel's sonship with God is to be renewed.

⁶ [10-11] He saw the heavens . . . and the Spirit . . . upon him: indicating divine intervention in fulfillment of promise. Here the descent of the Spirit on Jesus is meant, anointing him for his ministry; cf Isaiah 11:2; 42:1; 61:1; 63:9. A voice . . . with you I am well pleased: God's acknowledgment of Jesus as his unique Son, the object of his love. His approval of Jesus is the assurance that Jesus will fulfill his messianic mission of salvation.

[Salvation]

I see that I forgot Mark 1:11

11 And a voice came from the heavens, "You are my beloved Son; with you I am well pleased."

[spyoung]

“Non trinitarian baptisms are not valid.”

Uh, so all of the recorded baptisms in the NT that were recorded in Jesus’ name were not valid?

[editor-surveyor]

BM