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To: Frumanchu

God has ALWAYS known of my salvation. Always. Likewise, He has always known of his grace applied before I believed that convicted me and overwhelmingly prompted me to faith in Christ, knowing that I would not resist and draw back.

He has always known of your salvation as well.

Therefore, when did He NOT know of His love for you?


378 posted on 08/03/2005 6:19:00 AM PDT by xzins (Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It!)
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To: xzins
...knowing that I would not resist and draw back.

If you will understand that the reason you didn't draw back and resist was because His Grace made it a certainty that you wouldn't, then you will begin to see clearly.

As long as you hold out for an ability (free will) that could thwart His purpose, you are speaking unscripturally.

Free will, as most understand it, and as it is often used in these discussions, is nothing more than a manifestation of the spirit of rebellion.

380 posted on 08/03/2005 6:36:23 AM PDT by nobdysfool (Faith in Christ is the evidence of God's choosing, not the cause of it.)
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To: xzins

The problem now, xzins, is that you are completely avoiding any logical order to those components. Saying He always knew all these things for all eternity effectively ends the argument in a draw because you CANNOT derive causation without order.


381 posted on 08/03/2005 6:38:56 AM PDT by Frumanchu (Saved by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone to the glory of God alone.)
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To: xzins; Frumanchu
Therefore, when did He NOT know of His love for you?

That's not the issue here. Neither is His knowledge of who would believe, or His knowledge of your name, or anything else about you.

The issue is, why did God choose whom He chose, and on what basis, and for what reason did He choose them to salvation?

The answers are really simple: He chose whom He chose because it pleased HIM to choose them, and the reason He chose whom He chose was to the praise of His glory.

The reasons, and the impetus, are within God, and not within the chosen. The chosen did not have an effect on the One choosing, it was the One choosing who had the effect on the ones chosen.

383 posted on 08/03/2005 6:44:28 AM PDT by nobdysfool (Faith in Christ is the evidence of God's choosing, not the cause of it.)
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