Posted on 07/31/2005 5:22:28 PM PDT by sionnsar
[picture] Caption: The Rev. Paul Kelly, deacon of St. Joseph's Anglican Church in Sanford, prays at an altar on behalf of the congregation. The church, new to Sanford, is a return to the traditional Anglican doctrine and worship. The church meets at the Owl's Nest Club House at 10 a.m. each Sunday.
SANFORD - "We were home."
Sanford residents Hayden Lutterloh and Chris Gerry are among the many former Episcopalians who have found a new home in the Anglican Church.
Since the late 1970s, the Episcopal Church of the United States has instituted a series of changes in liturgy and doctrine, such as a revised Book of Common Prayer, fewer requirements to take communion, ordination of women, and ordination of homosexuals.
For some, these changes have been hailed as modernizing the church, making it more relevant to contemporary life. But traditionalists, like Lutterloh and Gerry, were appalled at the changes and looked elsewhere for a worshipping community.
Both found it in The Anglican Province of Christ the King [APCK], one of several Anglican unions that sprang up in United States in the late 1970s, as a reaction to the changes in the Episcopal Church.
A group of Episcopal laity and clergy gathered in St. Louis, Mo., in 1977 and issued a statement of faith, known as the Affirmation of St. Louis. Its guiding principals are found in the King James Bible, 1928 Book of Common Prayer and teachings of the early church fathers.
Members and clergy of the Anglican Province see themselves as preserving "the faith once delivered to the saints," as St. Paul the Apostle said. They recognize their clergy as having been ordained through an unbroken line of ecclesiastical authority traced, through the ancient apostles and bishop of Rome, back to Jesus Christ himself.
The continuity of religious doctrine and practice is important to them, Gerry said, adding that the church service in his father's 100-year-old Episcopal prayer book is word-for-word the service in the Anglican Church.
In Sanford, a fledgling congregation of about 10 meets for worship as St. Joseph's Anglican Church at The Owl's Nest Club House.
"This is a mission," said The Rev. Mr. Paul Kelly, deacon of St. Joseph's. "I was called by God to start this congregation and got my bishop's permission to do so."
Kelly doesn't see the Anglican Church as being in competition with the Episcopal Church.
"Some people are happy moving forward with a progressive Episcopal Church," he said. "We provide a haven for those who are not. Our relationship is complementary, not competitive."
Back in 1988, Kelly was attending St. Michael and All Angels Episcopal Church in Concord. When the bishop said the church would have a female priest, Kelly and others left and began attending an Anglican congregation.
He later felt the call to the priesthood, attended seminary and was ordained as an Anglican deacon in 1996. He is now studying for his ordination as a priest.
The Anglican Province of Christ the King is part of the world-wide Anglican Communion, which grew out of the Church of England. The Anglican Communion is part of what Kelly calls, the One Holy Apostolic Church, which also includes Catholicism and orthodox churches - churches that trace the legitimacy of their priesthood back to Jesus Christ and his apostles.
The Episcopal Church is also a member. According to Lutterloh, when the national Episcopal church approved the ordination of women and homosexuals, they broke their line of priesthood legitimacy.
The Episcopal church in America ordained its first woman priest in 1974, seeing it as giving women that opportunity to serve and deserved equality in the church hierarchy.
Women are important in the Anglican Church, serving in many positions, including on the church's ruling body, but is not part of the doctrines of the church for women to be ordained to the priesthood.
"The church is about salvation, not social justice," Kelly said. "If it were about social justice, I'd join a political party. Holding the priesthood is not a civil right; it's a sacred duty men hold."
Doctrinally, the Anglican Church is "about one step from Rome," Kelly said.
"We do not require people to believe in the doctrine of the immaculate conception of Mary (the mother of Jesus) or the infallibility of the pope, but some members do," he said. "I read the papal encyclicals because they are the work of very godly men."
For Lutterloh, the Anglican Church has regained the church as it was.
"If God is unchanging, the church is unchanging," he said. "I've never been in an Anglican Church where the members weren't avid - they were so happy to be home."
St. Joseph's Anglican Church meets at the Owl's Nest Clubhouse, 1414 Owl's Nest Road, Sanford, at 10 a.m. each Sunday. The church can be reached at (919) 775-4252.
This was NOT what I was taught, and I grew up in a fairly conservative RCC parish.
The way I understand it is that Mary was human, born human with all the human frailities instilled in her as a descendent of Eve. YET, because of her love of God, and her purity of spirit and soul, she found favor with God and God asked her to become the Mother of the Word of God : Christ, God Incarnat, BOTH Man and God. That is all. It was HER free will to say yes or no.
To ascribe divinity to Mary is to say that she was 'pre-made' for the position, and God just went through the motions. I find that idea very offensive, and is one reason why I left the RCC.
Jesus' conception is called the Miraculous Conception because he was conceived without a human father. Being conceived by the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, Jesus received both Divinity and humanity by his Miraculous Conception.
By her Immaculate Conception, and her Fiat Mary becomes the highest human being that ever lived who in nature was human alone. Christ being both God and man is more than human: he is both human and divine. His mother is God's creature; he is God's son. This makes all the difference in the world.
This has been very enlightening to read. As I was the one whose quote is getting tossed about, perhaps I might step in and say a word or two?
I suppose there's no way to avoid a debate on this, and the best way is for each to exhibit what is meant and thus we could all see if there is a common way of phrasing the same thing.
Sadly, there is no Scriptural warrant for assuming Mary was not born to Anna and Joaquin in the usual way. The text of Luke, to me, says she is cleansed and restored at the moment of her acceptance of the Divine commission (that is when she becomes full of grace). That she is sinless when she conceives and bears Jesus is equally true for my theory as for the IC. So, really what we're discussing is not whether the BVM is Immaculate, but rather when she started being so. My version has the benefit of drawing on Scripture, which is why I hold it. And again, my parishioner clearly accepts the IC. He and I are at peace because I do not forbid his belief and he does not enforce mine.
I think that the more important point than comparisions with Eve is to demonstrate what essential doctrine is protected by the doctrine of the IC. That is, what is being confirmed as a belief because and only because of the IC. If there is such a doctrine, then the probability that the IC is true increases.
That would be the constructive addition to this part of the thread, IMHO.
In Christ,
Deacon Paul+
Perhaps that is what you would like to discuss, but it is not up for discussion. It is settled dogma.
I recognise your approach as typical of the 20th century Anglican Communion and continuum, but it is sadly the same sort of construct that gave mainstream Anglicanism female ordination and assorted fruits and nuts.
It is not at all that kind of doctrine and that comment is surely a put-down.
And, perhaps it is settled doctrine for you, given the Pope has declared it mandatory of Roman Catholics, but it is not in the least settled for anyone else.
Which would mean it is not settled.
In Christ,
Deacon Paul+
And that is assuredly not the Anglicanism of the great Caroline Divines my Catholic Grandfather had me read (Lancelot Andrewes & Co.) who would have chewed you up (and me too for that matter) in a New York minute.
Charity is in short supply here, so I will restrict myself to saying that what is celebrated in my church is what I read from the Missals and lectionaries. We have no IC service, so there is no mention of it liturgically. It is a private pious belief on the part of a parishioner. So far as the Church is concerned, the BVM is the Theotokos and that's that.
In Christ,
Deacon Paul+
One final note, on my part, about this:
In the American Missal, one finds 'The Conception of the BVM' on Dec 8th. It calls her conception 'spotless' and says that it came about through foreknowledge of the coming birth of the Son. The conception is not there called 'immaculate', which is all I was saying before.
In Dom Gregory Dix's superb 'Shape of the Liturgy' he discusses the IC as a feast, noting it was invented by Anglo-Saxons in the 11th century (i.e., just before the Norman Conquest), and was exported to the Continent. It was not readily received there and only slowly gained acceptance, at least as a commemoration of the purity of our Lady. It was accepted into the Roman Kalendar in 1477. Its subsequent history is better known.
It is sad that this has overwhelmed the rest of the discussion, and only came up because the reporter insisted on asking us about it and then highlighting it in the article.
In Christ,
Deacon Paul+
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