Posted on 07/27/2005 10:16:13 AM PDT by American Newsman
Mainstream churches in the West appear to be dying as societies that are increasingly secular see less need for God, Pope Benedict said in comments published on Wednesday. Please visit my news site, which is one of the best on the web (http://requirednews.blog-city.com).
Just to drive the point home:
This relativizing concept of the church stands at the basis of the radical criticisms directed at the hierarchic structure of the Catholic Church. In order to justify it, L. Boff appeals to the constitution Lumen Gentium (No. 8) of the Second Vatican Council. From the council's famous statement, "Haec ecclesia (sc. unica Christi ecclesia)... subsistit in ecclesia Catholica"("this church (that is, the sole church of Christ)... subsists in the Catholic Church"), he derives a thesis which is exactly the contrary to the authentic meaning of the council text, for he affirms: "In fact it (se. the sole church of Christ) may also be present in other Christian churches" (p. 75). But the council had chosen the word subsistit—subsists—exactly in order to make clear that one sole "subsistence" of the true church exists, whereas outside her visible structure only elementa ecclesiae—elements of the church—exist; these—being elements of the same church—tend and conduct toward the Catholic Church (Lumen Gentium, 8). The decree on ecumenism expresses the same doctrine (Unitatis Redintegratio, 3-4), and it was restated precisely in the declaration Mysterium Ecclesiae (No. 1, AAS LXV (1973), pp. 396-398).Turning upside down the meaning of the council text on the church's subsistence lies at the base of L. Boff's ecclesiological relativism, which is outlined above; a profound misunderstanding of the Catholic faith on the church of God in the world is developed and made explicit. ...
In making the above publicly known, the congregation also feels obliged to declare that the options of L. Boff analyzed here endanger the sound doctrine of the faith, which this congregation has the task of promoting and safeguarding. (Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (Prefect Cardinal Ratzinger), Notification to Father Leonard Boff, March 11, 1985)
So it is your theory which "endanger[s] the sound doctrine of the faith" by falsely pretending that the Catholic Church doesn't assert that she is the one Church of Christ.
I beg to differ, VII gave us the NOVOUS ORDO mass which chased many Catholics away. Nobody wanted the mass to change except cardinal bugnini.
Welcome to FR!
Abp. Bugnini was not a cardinal.
>>I beg to differ, VII gave us the NOVOUS ORDO mass which chased many Catholics away.
Hmmm, just how solid was their faith if they left?? Think about that one..
And, how do you explain the explosion of the Catholic Church in Africa? you can't attribute it to TLM, but rather, the Novous Ordo...
Catholic Parishes Flourish in Southern U.S.
Number of Catholics Rises by 15 Million (Diocesan Priests Increase; Religious Decrease)
Spanish Catholicism still very robust (3 shrines and The Sagrada Familia)
Catholics outsource praying to India
Catholic Priests in India 'Outsourced' to Meet Clergy Shortage in West
Christian Coalition head (in Ala.) becomes Catholic
Church growth continues for Catholic and Pentecostals; six mainline denominations decline
Young people turn against their parents' 'church lite'
Pope calls US Church to repentance and renewal
A father for the 11th time - Widower becomes Catholic priest
Number of Adults Who Don't Attend Church Service Doubles
Huge Christian growth shocks China's leaders
Church Attendance Increased : Protestants have now clearly overtaken Catholics in church attendance
Catholics Trail Protestants in Church Attendance [Gallup]
Church Attendance Linked to Longer Life
Dozens of Episcopalians Follow Leader into Catholic Church
Thousands prepare to join U.S. Catholic Church this Easter
Where Have All the People in the Pews Gone?
More Than 150,000 People to Join Catholic Church Holy Saturday
Spirituality on the rise on college campuses
Analysis: Rome up, Protestantism down?
Benedict's Logic: A Church Contracting & Expanding Simultaneously
CHRISTIANITY EXPLODING WORLDWIDE; 3RD WORLD SENDING MISSIONARIES [V ENCOURAGING DOC]
Christianity taking over the planet?
Local pews straining to hold increasing Catholic population
Catholic Church is losing sway in Europe (Opinion from Ireland)
Has the Catholic Church given up the Ghost?
Statistics Reveal Africa Is (Catholic) Church's New Hope
Chicago Ordains Largest Class of Priests in a Decade
Foreign priests want to fill a need- if Americans let them
Reviving a dream: Big hopes of little congregation growing for Orthodox church
Ancient rhythm: Converts to Orthodoxy growing in America
Catholic Church Prepares for Cold War With Evangelists
IS THE CHURCH LIKELY TO SHRINK--AND SHOULD IT?
Church Attendance in Germany Experiences Huge Growth after Pope Benedict Elected
Our church is growing by 10 to 12 households per month. And we don't have a Latin Mass!
We also have chairs in the aisles -- and the Mass is not SSPX or in Latin. Just a very reverent Novus Ordo Mass.
**Let the good folks fed up with the liberalism of the mainline protestent churches come join!**
Amen! We had 24 people in our RCIA class last year!
Our parish is far beyond subsistence with monthly revenues over the 100 percent mark in comparison to the needs!
Many of those Catholicis are coming home. We had 15 enrolled in our last Catholics Can Come Home series.
Welcome them back! We do with welcoming arms!
Vatican II did anything BUT help stem the decline of the church in the west. The results of Vatican II(and I will agree the results have little to do with many of the actual documents), let confusion run supreme within the church. Parishoners were confused about what the church actually stood for, and Bishops grabbed power for themselves in the confusion after Vatican II.
"Farrrrr" worse then if the mass remained in Latin? If the church took the strong stands in the defense of the faith instead of having Vatican II, if the church kept the missal and its rubrics intact, I suspect the church would be in far stronger shape, regaurdless of the lanuage of the mass, vernacular or latin.
We are at a point that in terms of the mass, we have run out of solutions, the folk, charismatic, haugen-haas, multi-cultural and now even lifeteen have either ran or are starting to run their course. They have no inspried the bulk of people that these liturgies were designed to bring in.
Let me share a microcosm of the big picture which is causing the Church in America to die.
The Bishop of Fresno did not fare well financially in the last diocesan appeal. People are sick of his protection of homosexual priests, his greed, unorthodoxy, and his mistreatment of good people. So, Steinbock has decided to apply financial pressure on the laity at the local level. He decreed a certain amount that each parish had to raise to give to the diocese. His goal is six million +. He has hired a fundraising company to teach people to pressure parishoners (at home, by phone) into giving. He wants monthly donations, no word if he gets automatic access to their checking accounts. One wealthy parish has been told to raise one million +.
What does this friend of Mahony want to do with the money? He wants to buy land in the mountains around the retreat center he is renting from the Franciscans. He wants to put in an Olympic style pool so hormone driven teenagers on retreat can have co-ed fun (I kid you not).
He recently informed CCD teachers that they are no longer allowed to teach the sixth commandment (Thou shalt not commit adultery). One woman resisted and was told "We don't do (teach) that anymore." I AM NOT KIDDING. Steinbock kicked out several conservative Novus Ordo priests because their teaching was too traditional (small t). Some found refuge in Sacramento. I don't know where the others went.
People of the Fresno diocese want Rome to do an audit and intervene. They are extremely upset.
This type of thinking and worse is found in most places around California and the U.S. The all out assault is moving to full speed ahead. These guys have no fear. Who is going to smack them down, Levada? Laughable. That should be interesting to watch. If the "Church" is growing here it isn't Catholicism which is growing. It's Unitarianism.
P.S. Did I mention Fresno has a serious problem with demonic infestations and harassments? Guess who refuses to help?
Probably because you live in a fast growing area. People who live in the fast growing exurbs or in areas with many immigrants who are often Catholic do not get an accurate picture of the health of the church. For example, in many exurbs, even ELCA Lutheran and Epsicopalin churches are being built and have fairly large crowds, but that is hardly indicative of the health of these denominations as a whole.
See #33 for to add another bishop to one of your lists!
COD, Thanks for sharing what is happening in Fresno.
No so, I am in Oregon where the Bishop has declared bankruptcy.
We just have a wonderful priest and a wonder parish and wonderful parishioners. If you are ever in the Salem/Keizer area of the Willamette Valley, drop in and introduce myself. You'll see me there! (Sometimes at all four Masses -- even the Spanish one!) Not so often any more since I am no longer on the Pastoral Council.
That should have been:
Not so, ....
**"We don't do (teach) that anymore." **
Unbelievable. Have you emailed any of this to Pope Benedict XVI?
>>if the church kept the missal and its rubrics intact, I suspect the church would be in far stronger shape, regaurdless of the lanuage of the mass, vernacular or latin.
Your suspicions are unfounded. What you fail to recognize is that the problem is a cultural problem. The breakdown is with the culture, not the Curch. Pew warmers, bad priests, etc, are simply agents of this culture, not the other way around (ie, VII was bad, etc)..
Where the cultures are growing and thriving, so is the Church. Where the cultures are decadent and getting worse, so is the Church.
VII stemmed the tide on this. If things remained in Latin, the Church would be about 1/10000 th what it is today...
Look--people will snooze off during ANY Mass.
The idea that there is "actuosa participatio" in the English and that there was NOT "act...part..." in the Latin is utterly ridiculous.
About the same percentage of people are REALLY "actually (wholly) participating" in EITHER language.
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