Posted on 07/19/2005 9:48:25 PM PDT by sionnsar
“I am a gay man”, Peter Elliot proclaimed to the Anglican Consultative Council meeting in Nottingham. He did not mean that he was happy or merry. No. He means that he is a homosexual. What does that mean? No one really knows but like Alice in Wonderland, it means exactly what Peter says it means. It means look at me and accept me for whatever I say I am whatever that might mean.
Such voices as Peter’s are claimed to be “prophetic voices”, voices which challenge our age, voices which challenge the institutions of our society, voices which challenge the Church to change. In this case, these voices demand that those who call themselves “gay” or “homosexual” be recognized as belonging to a new category of our humanity and that the benefits of Christian marriage be granted to them as equivalent to the marriage between a man and a woman. These voices see themselves as equivalent to the prophetic voices of the past – uncompromising and demanding. But are they?
Do the prophetic voices of the Jewish, Christian and Islamic traditions call attention to themselves? Do the prophetic voices of the great religious traditions claim special attention for special interest groups in the name of self-definition and assertion? Or do the prophetic voices recall us to the foundational principles of our relation to God and to one another?
June 24th marked the Feast of the Nativity of St. John the Baptist, ironically the patron saint of Canada. He is a prophet and, as Jesus says, “more than a prophet” because he stands on the brink of the fulfillment of all prophecy in the Christian understanding of things. Does he point to himself? “Behold the lamb of God” (John 1.29), he says, pointing out Jesus to his disciples who will then become the disciples of Christ. “He it is who cometh after me, whose shoe’s latchet I am not worthy to unloose”(John 1.27), he says. “This is he of whom I said, ‘After me comes a man who ranks before me, for he was before me’”(John 1.30). Not much calling of attention to himself there, it would seem.
“He must increase, but I must decrease” (John 3.30), he says, quite the opposite of self-promotion, it would seem. Everything about the biblical view of prophecy would seem to be about calling attention to God and his dealings with our humanity and not about the social and political agendas of special interest groups vying for our attention and wreaking great violence upon the meaning and nature of our institutions.
In a free and democratic society, people are free to denominate themselves as they choose. In a free and democratic society, people are free to enter into contracts and associations of their choosing. It doesn’t mean that everyone has to accept those terms and categories of definition as binding, however tolerant of them we should be, however narcissistic and self-serving they may seem to be. And it doesn’t mean that the institutions themselves have to change their fundamental character.
For the Church, nothing can be compelled that does not have the clear warrant of Scripture. The terms “gay” and “homosexual” have no biblical (or biological) warrant; at best they are a distortion of the forms of friendship as distinct from marriage. For the Christian Church, the categories of our discourse are rooted in the doctrine of creation, “male and female He created them”; in the doctrine of redemption, as sinners all who seek the redeeming and transforming grace of God; and, in the doctrine of sanctification, as called to holiness of living in the states of life of single or married, as lay or clergy. Such categories recall us to the nature and the condition of our life in Christ.
Prophetic voices do not call attention to themselves but to God and to our life with God. The authentic Christian voices of prophecy always recall us to our foundational principles. They point us to Christ and to our life in Christ. “Behold”, he says, “I have called you friends” (John 15. 15). In him we are gay, for in him we find our joy and our happiness.
Fr. David Curry
Feast of the Nativity of St. John the Baptist
June 24th, 2005
Christ Church, Windsor, NS
Traditional Anglican ping, continued in memory of its founder Arlin Adams. Not on subject exactly, but we have to start eliminating "Islamic" from discussion. My opinion.
Ping! Discussion on prophectic (or not-so-prophetic) voices.
You aren't alone in your opinion. I know several who feel that the war between good and evil as described in Revelations is now happening and that Allah is, in reality, Satan.
I cannot disagree with the assertion that this war is in fact between the forces of good and evil.
Considering the purpose of prophecy was to reveal God's will to mankind, and considering that the final revelation of God has been given to us in His Word, prophecy of any kind no longer takes place.
"...prophecy of any kind no longer takes place."
Really?
http://www.geocities.com/kitezhgrad/prophets/
Yes, really. What was the purpose of prophecy in the 1st Century?
"What was the purpose of prophecy in the 1st Century?"
That depends on the specific prophecy. Here's one...
"And as we tarried [there] many days, there came down from Judaea a certain prophet, named Agabus.
And when he was come unto us, he took Paul's girdle, and bound his own hands and feet, and said, Thus saith the Holy Ghost, So shall the Jews at Jerusalem bind the man that owneth this girdle, and shall deliver [him] into the hands of the Gentiles"(Acts 21:10-11)
I mean the overall purpose of prophecy. Was it not to reveal the will of God to man?
"I mean the overall purpose of prophecy. Was it not to reveal the will of God to man?"
WHAT IS YOUR POINT AS TO THE PROPHECIES THAT FOLLOWED THOSE WE FIND IN THE NT, THE ONES I PROVIDED YOU WITH A LINK TO?
My point is this. If purpose of prophecy was to reveal the will of God, since we now have the final revelation of God in the Bible, there is no reason for prophecy today.
A rash assumption..."we now have the final revelation of God in the Bible."
No, it isn't an assumption.
2Ti 3:16-17
(16) Every scripture inspired of God is also profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for instruction which is in righteousness.
(17) That the man of God may be complete, furnished completely unto every good work.
If "the man of God may be complete, furnished completely unto every good work" by using Scripture, then I would say that no other revelation of God would be needed.
If.
According to Scripture, it is the case. I was merely using if at the start of my sentence to make a point. The Bible is clear.
Romans 12:5-7 (New King James Version)
5so we, being many, are one body in Christ, and individually members of one another. 6Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, let us use them: if prophecy, let us prophesy in proportion to our faith; 7or ministry, let us use it in our ministering; he who teaches, in teaching;
In the 1st Century, at the time of the writing of the Book of Romans, there was the gift of Prophecy. Had the Word of God been completely revealed at that time? No. Therefore, there was still the need for prophecy. However, God's Word is now completely revealed, and there is no more need for prophecy.
With that logic we no longer need teachers either. Everything has been taught.
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