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To: Buggman
Joel 1:15 and 2:1 claim that the Day of the Lord is "at hand," and yet even if we understand the Day of the Lord to be the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD,

No, actually the "day of the Lord" spoken of in Joel (and elsewhere in the OT prophets) was speaking often of immediate temporal judgment against either Israel or the enemies of Israel. Peter, under the direct inspiration of the Holy Spirit, applied Joel prophecy to the events of Pentecost in Acts 2. But in neither case is there some requirement to place the "at hand" to mean an undetermined, already multi-millennia time period from the giving of the prophecy. That is a supposition of the futurist.

The word translated “obey” or “keep” is tereo, which can mean either to guard (as when Yeshua prayed that God would “keep,” or protect, His disciples from the Evil One[6]) or to observe and follow, where we are told to obey the commands of the Father and the Son respectively.[7] Both are applicable here.

"Obey" is the primarily meaning with respect to the Word of God. We are not told to "guard" ("tereo") the Word. We are told to obey it. "I manifested Thy name to the men whom Thou gavest Me out of the world; Thine they were, and Thou gavest them to Me, and they have kept Thy word." "If anyone keeps My word, he shall never taste of death." There is another word "phulasso", that is more in line with your suggestion, and used that way "O Timothy, guard ("phulasso") what has been entrusted to you, avoiding worldly and empty chatter and the opposing arguments of what is falsely called "knowledge "--" "Guard ("phulasso"), through the Holy Spirit who dwells in us, the treasure which has been entrusted to you."

But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years,

This "God time" verse is probably one of the most misused verses in the futurist arsenal. There is nothing in the context to suggest that when God says "at hand" or "near" or "the things which must soon take place" (Rev. 1:1) He really means some undetermined amount of time in the future. Otherwise we are left to all sort of hermeneutical gymnastics. E.g., that the "thousand years" of Rev. 20 is really only 1000 days in our time, or perhaps 365,000 years depending on how one does conversion according to "God math".

"Now learn the parable from the fig tree: when its branch has already become tender, and puts forth its leaves, you know that summer is near ("eggus", cf Rev. 1:3);"

Are we really to believe that the expectation Jesus is putting forth here is that when a farmer goes out and sees the leaves coming on his trees that summer is actually (in "God time") thousands of year in the future?

This is the sort of interpretation the futurist relies on all over the place. If this is where your "midrash" leads you, then you can have it.

141 posted on 06/23/2005 6:06:34 AM PDT by topcat54
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To: topcat54
No, actually the "day of the Lord" spoken of in Joel (and elsewhere in the OT prophets) was speaking often of immediate temporal judgment against either Israel or the enemies of Israel.

No they weren't. Take Isaiah 13, for example: Even if you apply that to the fall of Babylon to the Persians (and as I show in the later chapters of my book, if you simply compare what Isaiah and Jeremiah wrote prophetically to history, there's no way that they fit), you've still got a 200+ year gap.

No, the Day of the Lord is a very specific eschatological period in which Adonai alone--not the Babylonians, Persians, Greeks, or Romans--would be exalted (Isa. 2). It is the time of His wrath poured upon the whole earth (Isa. 34). While we might see partial fulfillments, or dress rehersals, or remez, in history, the final fulfillment has never yet taken place.

Peter, under the direct inspiration of the Holy Spirit, applied Joel prophecy to the events of Pentecost in Acts 2.

Joel's sign of the darkening of the sun, moon, and stars is a common theme in Scripture. It also happens to be one of those junctions that enables us to line up the various prophecies on the same timeline:



A Comparison of the Cosmic Disturbance References in Prophecy

Isa. 13:10-13

Isa. 34

Joel 2:31

Ps. 18:7-17

Rev. 6:12-17

Mt. 24:29-31

"Therefore I will make the heavens tremble . . ."





". . . and the heavenly bodies will be shaken."

". . . and the earth will shake from its place . . ."



The earth trembled and quaked, and the foundations of the mountains shook; they trembled because He was angry."

"There was a great earthquake."


Isa. 13:10-13

Isa. 34

Joel 2:31

Ps. 18:7-17

Rev. 6:12-17

Mt. 24:29-31

"The rising sun will be darkened and the moon will not give its light."


"The sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood before the coming of the great and dreadful Day of the LORD."


"The sun turned black as sackcloth, and the moon as blood . . ."

"The sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light . . ."

"The stars of heaven and their constellations will not show their light."

". . . all the starry host will fall like withered leaves from the vine, like shriveled figs from the fig tree."



. . . and the stars in the sky fell to earth, as late figs drop from a fig tree . . ."

". . . the stars will fall from the sky . . ."


"All the stars of the heavens will be dissolved and the sky rolled up like a scroll."


"He parted the heavens and came down . . ."

"The sky receeded like a scroll, rolling up . . ."


Isa. 13:10-13

Isa. 34

Joel 2:31

Ps. 18:7-17

Rev. 6:12-17

Mt. 24:29-31

". . . at the wrath of the LORD Almighty in the day of His burning anger."




"The the [inhabitants of the earth] hid in caves . . . [crying] hide us from the . . . wrath of the Lamb!"

"At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn."




"He reached down from on high and took hold of me . . . He rescued me from my powerful enemy . . ."


"And He will send His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather the elect from the four winds . ."


But could this event be the darkening of the sky that happened at Yeshua’s crucifixion, as many preterists suggest based on Ac. 2:17-21?  No.  Obviously, all the wars, rumors of wars, false prophets, famines, earthquakes, and Abomination of Desolation had not happened in the last 48 hours of Yeshua’s life.  Just as obviously, the exact same event would be described in Revelation decades later as yet future.  In Acts, Kefa is citing the presence of the Ruach HaKodesh as a fulfillment of Joel’s prophecy.  He then recites the entire prophecy to get to its end, “And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of Adonai shall be saved,” from which he launches his sermon.
And now, I need to run to lunch. I'll get back with you in a bit.
147 posted on 06/23/2005 8:59:57 AM PDT by Buggman (Baruch ata Adonai Elohanu, Mehlech ha Olam, asher nathan lanu et derech ha y’shua b’Mashiach Yeshua.)
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