Replies

Spin spin spin...!

This does not serve your arguement well, unless you are trolling.

The truth is the church had married clergy until about the 1200's and went celibate because the heirs of priests were wanting to inherit church property, thus diluting church wealth.

There is a specific reason, in general, in a medieval world where inheritance and wealth was accumulated over generations, the Church had to be separate. The Church also had many men land women living in cloister, and Marriage does not go at all. One reason doesn't fully explain it.

Your dates are way off as well, in the third century, celibacy was advocated and pretty much enforced across West Europe for the higher orders of Priesthood, Bishops, Priests and Deacons. It was more fully enacted, and made a requirement, in the 7th century, and finally mandatory in the 11th century. There were many problems with enforcing it, as many Priests in outlaying places ignored the rule, and some Bishops actually abetted them in that case. The will of the Church, and of God, was clear before the third century, cf St Paul. Well before the Fourth Council of Lateran that you may have read, Celibacy was known to Christendom.

How ironic and blasphemous it is when the Church advocates against the death penally for evil cold blooded murders when it was "good enough" for the Savior?

The death penalty should be reserved for the most heinous of acts. You somehow have the unfounded notion that the Crucifixion was "good enough" for Jesus, I think not. Christ was innocent, and was killed unjustly.

He laid his life down so we would live, even when Christ was presented with chances to speak out and live. Even better, he was God, and by his words he could have had millions of Angels wipe out the Romans and establish a just order. He had a better idea, and this pretty must refuted your notion that we should apply the "good enough" solution.

To hold scum in a higher regard than Jesus....! That cant be righteous.

Scum? people are scum? You have a theological problem, we are all scum, and deserve just what Christ died to prevent, we deserve worse than simple execution, we deserve an eternity in Hell.

While a precious few bishops mumbled something about denying skerry communion, the overall silence was defining..

How would you know? I listened to four Bishops from Florida, the Bahamas and Jamaica speak before the election, they all said Abortion matters. They all said you have to consider that issue, that voting for an abortionist because of proportionate reason was wrong, which is a marked change from the stance of Mahoney. Even at that the specific actions of a Bishop differ from the actual teaching of the Church, which is clearly repeated by every Bishop, Abortion is Murder.

"Crucifixion was "good enough" for Jesus, I think not. Christ was innocent, and was killed unjustly."

You proved my point, Jesus was innocent and the tried and convicted are guilty...the Bible in many places calls for them to be put to death .

"Scum? people are scum? " what else are John Wayne Gacyee and Jeffrey Dahamer, or the two snipers who terroirsed Washing DC by taking random fatal shots from the trunk of a car.. or ted bundy, the BKT, the Green River,,, etc etc arent scum, then what the hell are they ??? Childs of God?

What about this bit of history?

"Pope Joan," who supposedly served from 855 to 858, was said to be an Englishwoman who disguised herself as a monk to be with her cleric boyfriend. She went to Rome, where she so impressed others with her learning that she was elected pope. Her secret was discovered when she gave birth during a procession, whereupon she was slain.

{Papal horror stories are entirely legit. In many cases, in fact, weaknesses of the flesh were the least of the popes' sins. In the Middle Ages many popes were elevated to office following the murder of their predecessors. During one particularly grim period from 882 to 1046, there were 37 popes, some of whom served only a few weeks.

Leo V (903), for instance, had been pope for only a month before being imprisoned and tortured by one Christophorus, who then enthroned himself. Both men were killed in 904 on the orders of Pope Sergius III (904-911). Sergius later had a son by his teenaged mistress Marozia who became Pope John XI (931-935). In 914, according to one chronicler, Marozia's mother Theodora installed her lover on the papal throne as John X (914-928). (Theodora and Marozia effectively controlled the papacy through their menfolk and may be the source of the Pope Joan legend.) John XII (955-963), who ascended to the papacy at 19, was accused, perhaps falsely, of sleeping with his father's mistress, committing incest with his niece, and castrating a deacon.

Murder gave way to bribery as a route to the papacy in later centuries; some 40 popes are believed to have bought their jobs. But the lax attitude toward celibacy remained unchanged. In large part this was because the Church was an important route to wealth and power. Sons of influential families were pushed into Church careers much as we might send a kid to MBA school, apparently with similar expectations regarding morals. Noblemen with mistresses saw no reason to adjust their life-styles just because they had taken vows.

The spectacle of cardinals and popes putting their "nephews" into cushy jobs was a standing joke in Rome for centuries. Innocent VIII (1484-1492) had a son and daughter who lived with him in the Vatican. The notorious Alexander VI (1492-1503), born Rodrigo Borgia, had at least four illegitimate children while still a cardinal, among them the cutthroat Cesare Borgia and the reputed poisoner Lucrezia Borgia (actually, she probably never poisoned anybody). Clement VII (1523-1534), himself illegitimate, had a son whom he attempted to make duke of Florence. Paul III (1534-1539) had four kids; two teen grandsons he made cardinals. Pius IV (1559-1565) had three children, and the list goes on.

This is the legacy of the "one true Church?"