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Catholic Church Prepares for Cold War With Evangelists
Pacific News Service ^
| 05/31/05
| Paolo Pontoniere
Posted on 06/01/2005 6:29:39 AM PDT by murphE
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To: aspiring.hillbilly
Spin spin spin...!
This does not serve your arguement well, unless you are trolling.
The truth is the church had married clergy until about the 1200's and went celibate because the heirs of priests were wanting to inherit church property, thus diluting church wealth.
There is a specific reason, in general, in a medieval world where inheritance and wealth was accumulated over generations, the Church had to be separate. The Church also had many men land women living in cloister, and Marriage does not go at all. One reason doesn't fully explain it.
Your dates are way off as well, in the third century, celibacy was advocated and pretty much enforced across West Europe for the higher orders of Priesthood, Bishops, Priests and Deacons. It was more fully enacted, and made a requirement, in the 7th century, and finally mandatory in the 11th century. There were many problems with enforcing it, as many Priests in outlaying places ignored the rule, and some Bishops actually abetted them in that case. The will of the Church, and of God, was clear before the third century, cf St Paul. Well before the Fourth Council of Lateran that you may have read, Celibacy was known to Christendom.
How ironic and blasphemous it is when the Church advocates against the death penally for evil cold blooded murders when it was "good enough" for the Savior?
The death penalty should be reserved for the most heinous of acts. You somehow have the unfounded notion that the Crucifixion was "good enough" for Jesus, I think not. Christ was innocent, and was killed unjustly.
He laid his life down so we would live, even when Christ was presented with chances to speak out and live. Even better, he was God, and by his words he could have had millions of Angels wipe out the Romans and establish a just order. He had a better idea, and this pretty must refuted your notion that we should apply the "good enough" solution.
To hold scum in a higher regard than Jesus....! That cant be righteous.
Scum? people are scum? You have a theological problem, we are all scum, and deserve just what Christ died to prevent, we deserve worse than simple execution, we deserve an eternity in Hell.
While a precious few bishops mumbled something about denying skerry communion, the overall silence was defining..
How would you know? I listened to four Bishops from Florida, the Bahamas and Jamaica speak before the election, they all said Abortion matters. They all said you have to consider that issue, that voting for an abortionist because of proportionate reason was wrong, which is a marked change from the stance of Mahoney. Even at that the specific actions of a Bishop differ from the actual teaching of the Church, which is clearly repeated by every Bishop, Abortion is Murder.
101
posted on
06/01/2005 9:33:02 AM PDT
by
Dominick
("Freedom consists not in doing what we like, but in having the right to do what we ought." - JP II)
To: aspiring.hillbilly
Now you tell me how the abortionist ossama abonimation gets a land side in the IL senate race without many Catholic votes.. And lots of Protestant and evangelical votes as well.
But you're just interested in attacking Catholicism to feed your hate.
102
posted on
06/01/2005 9:39:59 AM PDT
by
JohnnyZ
(Defeat Pat DeWine, RINO Mike DeWine's son! Tom Brinkman for Congress http://www.gobrinkman.com/)
To: nickcarraway
You should inform everyone on this thread that this is an extreme left wing news services from the San Francisco/Berkeley orbit. I think this article is explained by that fact. This is a web site for people who think NPR is way too conservative and who think of Christians as, "bad guys." I didn't know that, but it explains quite a lot. Thanks.
103
posted on
06/01/2005 9:40:09 AM PDT
by
murphE
(These are days when the Christian is expected to praise every creed but his own. --G.K. Chesterton)
To: JohnnyZ
So on abortion, gay marriage, the divinity and humanity of Jesus -- you wouldn't say that your view is right and another is wrong?God is right. We believe that our understanding of his revelation to us is right, but we do not put ourselves in His place of being infallible or divine. If we are shown evidence that our understanding on an issue is wrong, it is our duty to accept what is right. This is what the Jews of Jesus' day refused to do. He contradicted EVERYTHING they had been taught about God all of their lives. Most refused to accept that their traditional beliefs about God were wrong.
104
posted on
06/01/2005 9:40:25 AM PDT
by
Onelifetogive
(* Sarcasm tag ALWAYS required. For some FReepers, sarcasm can NEVER be obvious enough.)
To: aspiring.hillbilly
I hope you don't recognize any books by St. Paul. If you do, better get rid of them soon.
105
posted on
06/01/2005 9:46:33 AM PDT
by
nickcarraway
(I'm Only Alive, Because a Judge Hasn't Ruled I Should Die...)
To: Onelifetogive
So you currently have some opinions about what may or may not be God's truth. Well, from my perspective, I guess that's good, because I believe y'all are wrong about some things, and I'm glad you're open to changing your minds, but I have to say most evengelicals I know and know of are convinced that their interpretation is right and refuse to even consider other options. As for Catholics, we believe the Truth is the Truth, we got the Holy Spirit, Bible, the Church and tradition, and we're rock solid on what we believe.
106
posted on
06/01/2005 9:47:07 AM PDT
by
JohnnyZ
(Defeat Pat DeWine, RINO Mike DeWine's son! Tom Brinkman for Congress http://www.gobrinkman.com/)
To: JohnnyZ
As for Catholics, we believe the Truth is the Truth, we got the Holy Spirit, Bible, the Church and tradition, and we're rock solid on what we believe.Right?!?!
Find me two Bishops or Priests that can agree on what Catholicism believes. I could find you 1000 posts of staunch Catholics here on FR denying that what some Pope, Cardinal, Bishop or Priest is teaching is really Catholic teaching.
Sure, there is a "single" version of the Truth of Catholicism. It's just that EVERY single Catholic (including the Pope) has his own version of what it is.....
107
posted on
06/01/2005 9:54:13 AM PDT
by
Onelifetogive
(* Sarcasm tag ALWAYS required. For some FReepers, sarcasm can NEVER be obvious enough.)
To: HKMk23
How about taking a class in logic and amending your statement? Religions that teach things contradictory to each other cannot be both correct. It's against logic and Christ.
To: Onelifetogive
Thanks for that clarification.
109
posted on
06/01/2005 10:05:24 AM PDT
by
Rhadaghast
(Enter into His rest. Hebrews 4:6)
To: siunevada
"2. Urging really, really, really strongly that we don't impose the penalty is not the same thing as saying the penalty is wrong."
Why why advocate for leniency for evil cold blooded merciless killers when there is so much that could be done to assist the innocent victims? I don't see the church taking up a collection for widows and children of murder victims? No, let them wave anti-death penalty placards every time a execution is taking place. That is tantamount and equivalent to saying the death penalty is wrong, the weasel wording not withstanding. This blasphemous nonsense entered the Chatecism in 1995 reversing 2000 years of the church taking the correct biblical stand...
To: JohnnyZ
but I have to say most evengelicals I know and know of are convinced that their interpretation is right and refuse to even consider other options. Admittedly, changing one's beliefs based of what one reads in Bible is much more difficult than reinforcing one's beliefs.....
111
posted on
06/01/2005 10:08:57 AM PDT
by
Onelifetogive
(* Sarcasm tag ALWAYS required. For some FReepers, sarcasm can NEVER be obvious enough.)
To: Petronski; cyborg
That's a good one. The Rosary is important and always points us to Jesus. I find it of immense value and it certainly has redirected my focus to Jesus on more than one occasion.
To: Dominick
Excellent! I'm saving this one!
To: Onelifetogive
What happened to all that "unity" talk I was hearing so much about????? Now, now, stop it with all that common sense stuff.
114
posted on
06/01/2005 10:16:04 AM PDT
by
k2blader
("A kingdom of conscience ... That is what lies at the end of Crusade.")
To: Onelifetogive
.It's just that EVERY single Catholic (including the Pope) has his own version of what it is
Wasn't always the case...
115
posted on
06/01/2005 10:21:20 AM PDT
by
Pyro7480
("All my own perception of beauty both in majesty and simplicity is founded upon Our Lady." - Tolkien)
To: Dominick
"Crucifixion was "good enough" for Jesus, I think not. Christ was innocent, and was killed unjustly."
You proved my point, Jesus was innocent and the tried and convicted are guilty...the Bible in many places calls for them to be put to death .
"Scum? people are scum? " what else are John Wayne Gacyee and Jeffrey Dahamer, or the two snipers who terroirsed Washing DC by taking random fatal shots from the trunk of a car.. or ted bundy, the BKT, the Green River,,, etc etc arent scum, then what the hell are they ??? Childs of God?
To: fortunecookie
The rosary is mostly Hail Mary's. That only indirectly points to Jesus, there is no reference to anything like the rosary in the New Testament, it was invented later...
To: fortunecookie
The rosary is mostly Hail Mary's. That only indirectly points to Jesus, there is no reference to anything like the rosary in the New Testament, it was invented later...
To: murphE
Roman Catholicism has one great twofold selling point. Ritual and gaudy pomp and circumstance. If they would add Truth and Bible teaching they could grow just like the evangelicals. Some decent hymms would help too. Only Jews rival RCs in the absolute destitution of their group singing.
Right now they are failing miserably with their 1000 year outdated (and made up out of whole cloth) methods . They should try what Peter and Paul did. It works.
119
posted on
06/01/2005 10:31:42 AM PDT
by
mercy
(never again a patsy for Bill Gates - spyware and viri free for over a year now)
To: Onelifetogive
And how many Catholics adhere to the ban on the birth control pill and condoms which is a Catholic doctrine? Only non-married clergy could come up with such a nonsensical doctrine, if they were married and had 8-10 kids running around such foolishness would not be part of the rules...LOL
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