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To: Kolokotronis; Agrarian; Tantumergo; Vicomte13; Cronos; annalex; pharmamom; MarMema; FormerLib; ...

Comments?


2 posted on 05/29/2005 7:58:27 AM PDT by kosta50 (Eastern Orthodoxy is pure Christianity)
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To: kosta50

Not enough information. What will the theologians do about the filioque?


3 posted on 05/29/2005 8:45:17 AM PDT by ClaireSolt (.)
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To: kosta50

Certainly, reconciliation with the Orthodox is a noble end and I'm all for it. Yet, I think that the Orthodox Church in general is ill-prepared to engage in the self-examination and reflexion necessary to achieve reconciliation. Suspicion runs deep in the Orthodox Church and in spite of the ecumenical overtures made by individual jurisdictions, her claim to be the One True Catholic Church remains unabated. I'm skeptical that any Orthodox prelate has the courage to make decision that goes against his Church's self-understanding. Although reunion is highly desirable and work toward reunion needs to continue, we should not feel as if it has taken place already. Courage, patience, perseverance, and lots of institutional introspection are still needed to bring about reunion.

-Theo


5 posted on 05/29/2005 8:55:26 AM PDT by Teófilo (Visit Vivificat! - http://www.vivificat.org)
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To: kosta50; Tantumergo

Undoubtedly heartfelt and pious words from +Benedict XVI. What these will translate to in actions I can't foresee. I will say that the proposal for an Orthodox/Roman Synod at Bari is an intriguing idea, but while I have no doubt the Pope himself understands how we Orthodox view councils and the effect of their pronouncements, I wonder if the rest of the Roman hierarchy or laity does. If not, they are liable to be in for a disappointment...doesn't mean that the idea is a bad one, though.


8 posted on 05/29/2005 9:59:00 AM PDT by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated!)
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To: kosta50; ClaireSolt; Teófilo; Destro; monkfan; Kolokotronis; american colleen; Lady In Blue; ...
....

Pope Benedict XVI visited this eastern Italian port on his first papal trip Sunday and pledged to make healing the 1,000-year-old rift with the Orthodox church a "fundamental" commitment of his papacy.

Benedict made the pledge in a city closely tied to the Orthodox church. Bari, on Italy's Adriatic coast, is considered a "bridge" between East and West and is home to the relics of St. Nicholas of Myra, a 4th-Century saint who is one of the most popular in both the Roman Catholic and Orthodox churches.

Benedict referred to Bari as a "land of meeting and dialogue" with the Orthodox in his homily at a Mass that closed a national religious conference. It was his first pilgrimage outside Rome since being elected the 265th leader of the Roman Catholic Church on April 19.

"I want to repeat my willingness to assume as a fundamental commitment working to reconstitute the full and visible unity of all the followers of Christ, with all my energy," he said to applause from the estimated 200,000 people at the Mass.

Words aren't enough, he said, adding that "concrete gestures" were needed even from ordinary Catholics to reach out toward the Orthodox.

"I also ask all of you to decisively take the path of spiritual ecumenism, which in prayer will open the door to the Holy Spirit who alone can create unity," he said.

Benedict has said previously that reaching out to the Orthodox and other Christians would be a priority of his papacy, and his call to ordinary Catholics to take the charge as well built on that agenda.

Although a brief, three-hour visit, the trip was Benedict's inaugural pastoral pilgrimage and showed he was following in the much-traveled footsteps of his predecessor, Pope John Paul II.

The most-traveled pope in history, John Paul made 104 foreign pilgrimages and 146 pastoral visits in Italy during his 26-year papacy. John Paul visited Bari in 1984.

Benedict, 78, has said he is looking forward to attending the World Youth Day celebrations in Cologne, in his native Germany, this August — a trip John Paul had hoped to make himself.

He also has told residents of Castel Gandolfo, the lakeside papal residence in the hills south of Rome, that he would spend the summer months there. The Holy See distinguishes between pastoral visits to Italian cities and visits to Castel Gandolfo, which is Vatican property.

Polish bishops have said they also want Benedict to visit the late pope's homeland.

Benedict flew by helicopter to Bari, near the "heel" of boot-shaped Italy, and waved to the crowds from a white "popemobile," before celebrating the seaside, open-air Mass to close the conference on the Eucharist.

Wearing his bishop's miter and white vestments with Swiss Guards standing at attention at the foot of the altar area, Benedict blessed the faithful, many of whom waved the Vatican's yellow and white flags or white baseball caps handed out by organizers to shield them from the sun.

Security in the city was tight, with the town center and seaside boulevard leading to the Mass site closed to regular traffic. Hundreds of police patrolled the streets, coastal waters were closed to private vessels and the Italian navy ship San Giusto was anchored nearby, officials said.

In his greetings at the start of the Mass, Archbishop Francesco Cacucci of Bari referred to the city's Orthodox ties, saying the arrival of St. Nicholas' bones in 1057 "built a bridge between the East and West that neither time nor divisions have ever demolished."

"Even in these days, many brothers of the eastern churches have been united with us, encouraging us to continue with renewed commitment and enthusiasm on the path of prayer and ecumenical dialogue," the archbishop said.

In a bid to improve relations, the Vatican's top ecumenical official, Cardinal Walter Kasper, proposed this week at the Bari conference to hold a synod, or meeting of Catholic and Orthodox bishops, news reports said.

Father Vladimir Kuciumov, rector of the Russian Orthodox Church in Bari, said Benedict had already made a good start toward improving relations with the Orthodox in some of his inaugural homilies and speeches.

"We hope for the best," he said in a telephone interview Sunday. "We still have to see, but there is a hope to improve our relations."

The Italian media had been speculating that Benedict would use his first pilgrimage in Italy to weigh in on a pressing national issue: upcoming referendums on voiding parts of a new law that restricts assisted fertility treatment in Italy. Italian bishops have urged voters to stay home so the referendums fail to reach quorum.

It seemed more likely though, that Benedict would use an audience with the Italian Bishops' Conference on Monday to make any reference to the issue.

+ + + + +

Nicholas of Myra's feast day is celebrated in the Eastern and Western Churches on December 6. What is actually known about Nicholas is little, but as far as can be determined he was born toward the end of the 3rd century the son of Theophanes, a celebrity in his own right in the city of Patara in Lycia in Asia Minor, part of the Eastern Roman Empire. Nothing is known about his childhood, but legend has it that after his birth, while still in the baptismal fond, he stood on his feet for three hours supported by no one to render honor to the Holy Trinity. In his youth he was influenced by his uncle, Nicholas, bishop of Patara, to chose the monastic life. As a young man he was imprisoned during the persecutions of the Emperors Diocletion and Maximilian. In time he became known for his piety and acts of charity. While the Arian heresy was rampaging throughout Christendom, he sided with the Catholic party. The arch-heretic, Arius, had taught that Christ is neither equal to nor of one substance with the Father, but merely an intermediary between God and man. To crush this heresy, Emperor Constantine summoned the bishops into solemn conclave in the First Ecumenical Council of Nicea in 325. At this council the Catholic party prevailed over the heretics and Arius was condemned. The story goes that Nicholas was present at the council and was so incensed by the heretic's arrogance that he struck him, for which reason he was expelled by the council fathers. Nicholas is nowhere to be found on the lists of bishops who attended the council.

Another story tells that Nicholas gave three bags of gold to three girls as dowry to spare them from prostitution. He is also said to have raised three boys to life after they had drowned and to have saved three wrongly condemned prisoners from execution and sailors from drowning.

Nicholas' reputation for charitable works grew during his lifetime and after his death on December 6, 343. After the Virgin Mary and St. John the Forerunner he was the most revered saint in the early Church. The Emperor Justinian instituted his feast day in the liturgical calendar on December 6 and dedicated a splendid church in his memory in Constantinople. By popular acclamation he was declared a saint worthy of universal veneration.

St. Nicholas is venerated as patron saint of Greece, Russia, Kingdom of Naples, Sicily, Lorraine, and by several cities of Europe including Moscow. On his feast day he was celebrated as benefactor of children in both the Eastern and Western Churches.

When the city of Myra was threatened by the invading Muslims and fell into their hands, out of fear that his remains might be desecrated by the heathens, his body was transported by Italians to Bari on the east coast of Italy in the year 1084 where it remains to this day within a magnificent basilica built in his honor. His remains are reputed to exude a fragrant myrrh-like substance known as myron. This phenomenon known as "manna of St. Nicholas" was present during the reinternment of his body in the 1950ies.

The Protestant revolt in 16th century Europe worked hard to suppress the veneration of the Virgin Mary and the saints in the territories under its control. It was in those parts of Europe that Nicholas evolved from a saint into a jolly old fat fellow who gives gifts to children on December 6. His secularization continued in America as Santa Claus or St. Nick, moved from Myra to the North Pole whence he emerges every year to the joy of the money-grubbing merchant class and of the innocent children, few of whom know of his origins. To the faithful, however, in the Eastern Churches of the Byzantine/Slavonic liturgical tradition St. Nicholas remain preeminent for his good works and is represented for veneration in many an icon throughout the world where right-believing Eastern Christians are found.

 

TROPARION of Saint Nicholas

The sincerity of your deeds has revealed you to your people as a teacher of moderation, a model of faith, and an example of virtue. Therefore, you attained greatness through humility, and wealth through poverty. O Father and Archbishop Nicholas, ask Christ to save our souls.

KONTAKION of Saint Nicholas

You were truly a priestly worker in Myra, for zealously living the Gospel of Christ, you dedicated your life to your people; you saved the innocent from death. Therefore you have been sanctified as one who has entered the mystery of God's grace.


19 posted on 05/29/2005 2:25:22 PM PDT by NYer ("Love without truth is blind; Truth without love is empty." - Pope Benedict XVI)
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To: kosta50

Two interesting things about the Pope's statement. First, the choice of Bari, which is in the region of Italy which was Orthodox the longest. And second, his call to the laity and ordinary clergy of his confession. It's almost as if he's trying to give the Latin church a 'booster shot' of Orthodox ecclesiology: remember that our magesterium, while in some measure concentrated in the teaching charism of the episcopate, permeates the Church, so that the laity, monastics, and ordinary clergy are as much responsible for the propogation, defense, and yes, even definition of the Faith (the last only in the extrordinary circumstances when heresies challenge the Faith, since a council cannot be universally valid unless received by the Church as a whole).


45 posted on 05/29/2005 8:08:22 PM PDT by The_Reader_David (Christ is Risen! Christos Anesti! Khristos Voskrese! Al-Masih Qam! Hristos a Inviat!)
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To: kosta50; Kolokotronis; Agrarian; Tantumergo; Vicomte13; Cronos; annalex; pharmamom; MarMema; ...
Perhaps through the Sacrament of the Holy Eucharist and Marriage the rift may be welded shut.

St Paul mentioned that Love does not seek its own kind (depending on the translation from the original text).

Perhaps we should pray for St Raphael's intercession for happy meetings of men and women from Orthodox and Catholic Faiths, and we should ask the Arch Angels to expel those devils that keep us apart.
93 posted on 05/30/2005 1:17:36 PM PDT by SaltyJoe ("Social Justice" begins with the unborn child. "Seamless garment" is a stolen article from Christ.)
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To: kosta50; Kolokotronis
Thanks for the ping kosta, and welcome back Kolo. This place is a little emptier and less learned without you.

I'm a little late to this party, and I'm not going to read all posts, so beg pardon if mine is repetitive.

The issue on which all other issues hang is papal infallibility. A priest on EWTN, a while back, when discussing re-Union said as much.

Pope Benedict and the Orthodox Patriarchs can do as they please, as the Lord has given them the power to shepherd and lead, but let the re-Union be authentic if it's to be. Let us be in Communion. That means we believe the same things, recognize each other's Liturgies without the least bit of trouble, and on, and on, an on.

I don’t think re-writing or extricating oneself from the DofPI is the cake-walk some would propose. It has been seldom invoked, and poorly explained by those who used it unrelentingly as an anchor of union and obedience. And now to all of a sudden collapse that sail, no matter how deftly, will wreak untold havoc in the RCC, in my admittedly under-educated opinion.

185 posted on 05/31/2005 8:45:41 AM PDT by AlbionGirl (''Melius est Herodis porcum esse quam filium.'' - Caesar Augustus)
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