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There is a great deal of discussion going on in some dioceses about restoring the proper order of the Sacraments of Initiation: Baptism, Confirmation, and Eucharist.

As you can read above, Fargo is one of the dioceses that is now conferring Confirmation along with First Eucharist. This conforms to the ancient practice of the Early Church and the current practice of the Eastern Churches. The revised order also emphasizes Confirmation as the completion of Baptism, rather than some adolescent rite of passage, as it is viewed in many dioceses today.

Resistance to this restoration comes from many sources. Religious Ed Directors and parents see postponing Confirmation as a way to keep adolescents involved in Church life. The downside to that is that many adolescents view Confirmation as a "graduation" from both Mass attendance and participation in the Church. Sad experience would seem to bear out this impression.

Many bishops would like to make this change, but resist upsetting the DRE's and parents.

Theologically, postponing Confirmation to adolescence leaves the mistaken impression that Confirmation is not practically one of the Sacraments of Initiation.

What are your experiences and thoughts about tying Confirmation more closely to First Eucharist, and even conferring both in the same ceremony? Or, what about, with the proper catechesis, conforming the Latin Rite practice with that of the Eastern churches?

1 posted on 05/12/2005 12:23:48 PM PDT by sinkspur
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To: sinkspur

I think this is an interesting proposal. I think that a late Confirmation, 10th or 11th grade, does treat Confirmation as a graduation ritual rather than as a Sacrament. It implies that the Sacrament "recognizes" a certain level of religious education, rather than "conferring" a sacramental grace, thereby devaluing the role of the Holy Spirit in the Sacrament.

On the other hand, I'm not entirely comfortable with the idea of confirming very young children who have not the capacity to make a real decision to accept the Faith. I was confirmed in the Presbyterian Church when I was 10 - a little younger than usual, but I knew my Catechism, and it was convenient for my mother to have my older brother and me in the same class. Presbyterians and Lutherans are usually an early-teens confirmation, after which the young person also receives Communion.

So I guess I'm conflicted! In some ways I like it, and in others I don't!


2 posted on 05/12/2005 12:32:38 PM PDT by Tax-chick (Every day is Mother's Day when you have James the Wonder Baby!)
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To: sinkspur
What's more of a concern is restoring the proper order of first Communion and first confession.

In my diocese every child went to first Communion in 2nd grade and first confession in 3rd grade, in a ridiculous reversal of the proper order.

That's a more pressing problem than the archeological desire to bring back combined Baptism/Confirmation.

Adolescent Confirmation isn't the reason why Catholic teens stop assisting at Mass.

They stop because of poor parenting (usually a father who never goes to Mass) or poor catechizing or both.

My Confirmation instruction had absolutely nothing to do with the Church's teaching on the sacrament or the role of the Holy Spirit in the Church or anything else that was relevant. It was mostly about how it's bad to be racist, that we should all be nice to other people, etc. All things that 13 year old should have learned long before they were 13 and which have little to do with the doctrinal content of the sacrament.

3 posted on 05/12/2005 12:33:13 PM PDT by wideawake (God bless our brave soldiers and their Commander in Chief)
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To: sinkspur
Fargo is one of the dioceses that is now conferring Confirmation along with First Eucharist. This conforms to the ancient practice of the Early Church and the current practice of the Eastern Churches.

Correction: The early Church and Eastern Churches confer Baptism, Confirmation, and Eucharist together, to infants, and to converting families.

4 posted on 05/12/2005 12:37:18 PM PDT by sinkspur (If you want unconditional love with skin, and hair and a warm nose, get a shelter dog.)
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To: sinkspur
Many bishops would like to make this change, but resist upsetting the DRE's and parents.

Maybe Bishop Acqilla could give a little presentation at USCCB meetings - "Bishops and DREs - Who's In Charge Here?"; something like that.

According to his timetable, this should have been completed Spring, 2005. I wonder how it all worked out?

8 posted on 05/12/2005 12:54:46 PM PDT by siunevada
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To: sinkspur
There are some parishes nearby me who have put off first Communion until third grade. They feel the children are better catechized if they wait the extra year.

Nearly every Catholic child receives First Communion, but my understanding is CCD enrollment drops significantly after First Communion. If that is the case, I guess it is a good idea to receive the sacraments together. Many children are deprived of the extra graces available through the sacrament of Confirmation.

Either way, this is another one of those things that I imagine people feel very strongly about one way or the other, but I can see good arguments on both sides.

9 posted on 05/12/2005 12:56:06 PM PDT by old and tired
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To: sinkspur

While this is the ancient practice of the East, and many orthodox priests and bishops have advocated its eventual return, or at least closing the gap (some dioceses confirm at age 7 now), my gut instinct tells me this will be just another change that will further confuse the lay faithful with all the myriad of changes since the Second Vatican Council.

I support a moratorium on any further liturgical or sacramental changes in the Church for the next 100 years. This would be included in such a moratorium. If the "reform of the reformers" want to continue to pursue their agenda to get the Sacred Liturgy back into conformity with the letter of Sacrosactum Concilium, I am for that as well.

Continuous change, even when it is change for the better, is the mark of revolutionaries. Enough is enough already!

Pray for a universal indult to all Latin-rite priests for the Classical Roman rite of Mass. Then, the real "renewal" (restoration!) will begin.


16 posted on 05/12/2005 1:28:57 PM PDT by Mershon
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To: sinkspur

I had my first communion at 8 and was confirmed at 14. I don't remember much of the parish CCD preparation we had for first communion. We did have to make first confession beforehand, which is a small miracle considering the liberal priest who ran the parish at the time. I do remember CCD prep for confirmation, and it was a big joke. I learned nothing about what the sacrament really meant. The classes were very secular; quite similar to the "self-esteem" and "setting goals" lessons I was subjected to in my public middle school.

Confirmation was very much treated as a rite of passage/graduation type thing in my parish. Of the 70 or so kids who were confirmed that year, maybe 10 regularly attended Mass with their families. It didn't matter if you couldn't care less about religion or if your parents felt the same - when you turned 14, it was just what you did.

CCD stopped once you were confirmed in the parish. This meant that the gap between first communion and confirmation guaranteed that some of these kids would be in CCD for 6 extra years. Had first communion and confirmation been celebrated at the same time, many of these kids would have stopped going to CCD at 8. However, this really wouldn't have been that bad, since CCD was an abysmal waste of time at my old parish.


19 posted on 05/12/2005 1:46:01 PM PDT by sassbox
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To: sinkspur

I am not sure I agree with this move. Although the three sacraments are tied together in RCIA (which I teach, and I see it works there), I don't think it is necessarily appropriate to recombine them for children, as the ancient Church did. One of the purposes of Confirmation is to be able to offer a defense of the faith. Considering children receive Holy Eucharist at about 3rd grade, I find it unlikely, given the current state of catechesis of the child (and the parents), that he will be able to do so. Perhaps in days gone by, but not now. Our culture today bombards our children with the opposite message that the Church puts out. Confirmation classes give the thinking teen an opportunity to combat society with an effectively given message of Jesus Christ.

While some parents see Confirmation as a "rite of passage", they are missing the point of the sacrament. They themselves need to consider returning to the Church and brush up on their sacramental theology.

Actually, our Church needs to seriously address getting out the message better and reminding adults that we are all called to Christ's Church and a response is in order. We don't hear that message very often.

Regards


33 posted on 05/12/2005 3:35:45 PM PDT by jo kus
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To: sinkspur; american colleen; Lady In Blue; Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; ...
What are your experiences and thoughts about tying Confirmation more closely to First Eucharist, and even conferring both in the same ceremony? Or, what about, with the proper catechesis, conforming the Latin Rite practice with that of the Eastern churches?

The following thread, devoted specifically to this Sacrament, was posted by kjvail on May 7.

It is a MUST read!

"The sacraments of Christian initiation — Baptism, Confirmation, and the Eucharist — lay the foundations of every Christian life. 'The sharing in the divine nature given to men through the grace of Christ bears a certain likeness to the origin, development, and nourishing of natural life. The faithful are born anew by Baptism, strengthened by the sacrament of Confirmation, and receive in the Eucharist the food of eternal life. By means of these sacraments of Christian initiation, they thus receive in increasing measure the treasures of the divine life and advance toward the perfection of charity.'
(Catechism of the Catholic Church #1212)

It is from the Catholic Educator's Resource and, as the author notes, the Sacrament of Confirmation is actually the Sacrament of Strengthening.

One of the most egregious decisions ever made by the USCCB was to extend reception of this sacrament until the teen years, and then make it optional. Teens, especially, need the strength gained from reception of the gifts of the Holy Spirit in order to make the decision to receive it.

My mother received both the Sacrament of Holy Eucharist and Confirmation only weeks apart. When I was growing up, we received First Communion in 2nd grade and Confirmation in 6th or 7th grade (the bishop only came once every 2 years). My daughter was scheduled to receive Confirmation in 11th grade but dropped out only weeks before the end of classes. This was a painful experience that no parent should ever have to endure. With much coaxing and reassurance, she completed the program in 12th grade and was finally confirmed.

The 7 gifts of the Holy Spirit are like seeds planted into fertile soil. These blossom, oftentimes later in life, when needed. No child should be denied these gifts!

The Maronite Catholic Church administers the Sacraments of Baptism and Chrismation at the same time. First Communion, as in the Latin Rite, is administered in 2nd grade, following 2 years of preparation. This is as it should be.

Please take some time to read through this lengthy but important description of the Sacrament of Confirmation. Bookmark the thread! It is one you will refer back to repeatedly.

Sacrament of Confirmation: Knighthood in the Kingdom Family of God

35 posted on 05/12/2005 4:19:27 PM PDT by NYer ("Love without truth is blind; Truth without love is empty." - Pope Benedict XVI)
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To: sinkspur
Popes see things not visible to other mortal men (like us bloggers). When a Pope called on Catholic youth to receive the Holy Eucharist at a young age, how many souls were saved because of this move when decades later lives were ripped apart from two World Wars and immensely powerful tyrannies?

Confirmation will help elevate our awareness of the presence of Christ in the Holy Eucharist. The Sacramental Life brings us closer and closer to Christ. I have faith that our spiritual shepherds will lovingly tend to us as the Church will not fail.
41 posted on 05/12/2005 4:41:42 PM PDT by SaltyJoe (The anticipation is terrible...I hope it lasts!)
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To: sinkspur

For the RCIA this is the norm. Even for the RCIA children -- I believe they are baptized, then confirmed and then receive the Eucharist.

All at the Easter Vigil Mass, of course.

I like it. I think it gives more importance to the practice of a CAtholic life. Through the further infusion of the Holy Spirit into one's mind, soul, and body, a lot of evangelization, knowledge, etc. could be manifested.


52 posted on 05/12/2005 8:48:01 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: sinkspur

I think it's a good idea. Most of the arguments against doing it don't treat of confirmation as a sacrament. The Orthodox have it right: if it's a sacrament that marks an individual give it to them as soon as possible for their own good! Not sure if this indeed their line of reasoning, but it makes sense to me.


75 posted on 05/13/2005 10:30:58 AM PDT by WriteOn (in a word, it's the Word.)
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