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To: D-fendr

***however, that might make apply to someone of another religion as well.***

No, people from other religions can not reflect the moral likeness of Christ for they are without the Spirit of God. The Spirit of God only enters one's life through hearing and believing the Gospel (think Peter and Cornelius).




***One of the primary purposes and values of an institutional church is the accurrate transmission of knowledge/wisdom/spirit.***

The purpose of the Scriptures is the accurate transmission of knowledge/wisdom/spirit in that it acts as a corrective to accidental (and purposeful) distortions introduced by human praxis and the inevitable shift that occurs across ages.





***God knows what's he's doing, this is the way He set it up, take it up with Him if you don't like it.***

Your answer indicates you submit your conscience to the authority of the RCC. Do you believe you can't recognize good and evil unless the RCC tell what it is?

Jesus tells us:

"Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will recognize them by their fruits. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? So, every healthy tree bears good fruit, but the diseased tree bears bad fruit. A healthy tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a diseased tree bear good fruit.

Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus you will recognize them by their fruits."

In other words, a bad pope who does bad things is a false prophet. This is not specifically a Catholic rap, but it ain't ever "God's way" to have a murder, adulterer, rapist or thug leading His people. We don't have to "take it up with Him" in that He has already told us what He thinks.





***this is a more effective way of passing on the true teachings through the great expanse of time (from practicality);***

We need to take a look at Jesus' attitude towards the Talmud.


1,102 posted on 05/17/2005 4:01:11 PM PDT by PetroniusMaximus
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To: PetroniusMaximus
No, people from other religions can not reflect the moral likeness of Christ…

Forgive me, this is a new criteria for me. Could you give me the precise attributes of "moral likeness" as you use it, and as others use it to discern whether someone has it? Is there like a list maybe?

The purpose of the Scriptures is the accurate transmission of knowledge/wisdom/spirit in that it acts as a corrective to accidental (and purposeful) distortions introduced by human praxis and the inevitable shift that occurs across ages.

I'm afraid the results of sola scriptura in Calvinism, Dispensationalism, Adventisms, de-sacramentalism, et. al... illustrates the performative error in your logic.

Your answer indicates you submit your conscience to the authority of the RCC.

I don't believe that's possible for any human, unless we have different definitions of God's law written on our hearts.

Do you believe you can't recognize good and evil unless the RCC tell what it is?

See above. (You should also keep in mind I'm a fairly recent convert.) In my experience, the Church is a valuable, very valuable help to me in these matters. "Fides et Ratio," for example on the area of transcendence and reason. The church teaching on chastity, for example, on the areas of lust and fidelity. The sacrament of eucharist and the communion of saints in the areas of the oneness of the Body of Christ. And the sacrament of reconcilliation on the realities of life striving to conform my will to that of God's.

You have it precisely backwards. I see in your question a view some have towards sin and God. That we wish to sin, but God doesn't want us to so we have to force ourselves not to sin in order that God won't zap us. No, God loves us and does not wish us to suffer, sin causes us - and others - to suffer. So God gives us many good things to help us learn and grow and turn away from sin.

Among these things is the institution, sacraments and people of my church. And those saints who went before.

I don't look at my Church to tell me right from wrong - although its teaching is excellent and detailed and consistent on these matters. No, I look to my church to help me put on the mind of Christ, to help me, in very specific ways, to more constantly be consciously aware of the presence of God.

1,104 posted on 05/17/2005 4:21:24 PM PDT by D-fendr
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To: PetroniusMaximus
In other words, a bad pope who does bad things is a false prophet. This is not specifically a Catholic rap, but it ain't ever "God's way" to have a murder, adulterer, rapist or thug leading His people. We don't have to "take it up with Him" in that He has already told us what He thinks.

But here is the amazing thing, eventhough there have been some bad Popes - no educated Catholic would disagree with you - not one of these men ever changed the deposit of faith, not one. And in the case of Vigilius who was elected Pope by the conniving of Empress Theodora thinking he would support her Monophysitism, when push came to shove, he didn't support the heresy but upheld his predesessor. For this he suffered 8 years of imprisonment at the hands of the Emperor.

1,113 posted on 05/17/2005 5:59:46 PM PDT by Pelayo ("If there is hope... it lies in the quixotics." - Me)
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