CHRISTIANITY EXPLODING WORLDWIDE; 3RD WORLD SENDING MISSIONARIES [V ENCOURAGING DOC]

ANDREW STROM VIA MERI BURLINGAME EMAIL LIST ^ | 28 APR 2005 | WORLD NET DAILY

[wideawake]

I don't think so. I think you are deceiving yourself or being deceived by someone else.

This is, of course, a phenomenon which you can discern perfectly in others - but which, of course, could never happen to yourself.

I don't think you can answer the following question on the Biblical side honestly in the affirmative. Paul wrote about that and particularly meetings of such in I Cor 14. Are your meetings held accordingly with Holy Spirit doing His part overtly in concert with such efforts? Does each come with a song, a verse, a prophecy or such?

Not everyone has a prophecy to utter or a tongue to speak. We have psalms and we have doctrine. We have revelation. We have interpretation. More importantly, we have the Spirit and we discern the body.

Given your stances, attitude and comment, I'd virtually guarantee that your honest answer has to be no.

Well, you are in error.

Therefore, you don't really follow Paul's writings on corporate life much at all.

You must be thrilled to have been given the authority to make such pronouncements. However, you're wrong.

You are doggedly convincing me that you have less and less to offer me on such issues.

Why would I?

You have already decided that I am "deceived", that our meetings are devoid of the Spirit, that we scant Paul's teaching, that we don't follow the Scripture, and that unless I receive a specific new revelation from God which you believe that you have and which you believe that I don't have, I'm disobeying God's will.

You already have all the answers, and those of us who are foolish enough to take the Scriptures seriously and to disagree with Mr. Rutz are simply beneath you, aren't we?

You go ahead and continue to know everything about everything and appoint yourself as the arbiter and judge of the Church of God.

I'll just continue along in my ignorant Scriptural way. Best of luck.

[mike182d]

Beyond that, I'm not going to get into that contentious issue with you.

I'm merely pointing out a logical error. The Bible makes no mention of celebrating the Sabbath outside of Saturday, the day God rested from creating the cosmos. Thus, any celebration of the Sabbath outside of Saturday is a tradition invented by men. Regardless of whether it is good or bad, it is still a tradition not rooted in Scripture. Thus, you cannot say you disregard the traditions of men when you do in fact adhere to the traditions of men. This is a logical contradiction, not a "point of contention."

[Quix]

Happy to be wrong about such things . . .

-------------

Q: I don't think so. I think . . . --I qualified my comment at the outset as a thought.

I didn't pray about it; didn't try and discern it; just thought about it related to a comment of yours upthread wherein you'd given the IMPRESSION that you didn't tolerate or believe anything from God post the end of Revelation. It was an extrapolation on my part. Happy it was wrong.

I enjoy dialogue--sometimes even vigorous, rough and tumble dialogue. I don't enjoy 'pronouncements' per se much at all--especially the sort you were referring to.

I do still think that God has more to show you about institutionalized Christianity in our era and that it will likely be something important for you to grow in your understanding about. I don't know what that would be other than in that ball park.

I wasn't totally convinced that you didn't follow I Cor 14 but given what SOUNDED/APPEARED to be a pretty typical hereon aversion on your part upthread, to hearing anything from God post the last verse in Revelation, it seemed like a safe guesstimate.

God knows I don't consider even Shrillery per se beneath me--except in her traitorousness.

God knows I don't have all the answers AND THAT I KNOW THAT--in painful detail.

Don't consider myself a judge of the church of God. I do feel compelled to offer some insights He has burned into me along the way . . . at least on occasion.

I'll take the Blessings of God over the goddess of luck any day.

Blessings,

[Quix]

The Bible makes no mention . . .

Perhaps we have a different Bible.

But enough on that.

[Gamecock]

I generally avoid those who bring a spirit of contentiousness into the Church.

So I guess turning tables over in the house of God would not meet with your approval?

[freebilly]

The body of true believers is not a den of thieves.

The smarmy often tried to trap Christ with silly questions in his day. I see the smarmy are still with us....

[PetroniusMaximus]

*** In what sense, then, are they legitimately "Christian?"**

What would you use as a criteria for determining the legitimacy of their Christianity?

[PetroniusMaximus]

***The Bible makes no mention of celebrating the Sabbath outside of Saturday,***

This is not true. The principle in the NT is freedom from legal observance. The Sabbath was part of that legal code. We are free to worship God an any day we please...

Romans 14:5
One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

Colossians 2:16
Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

Also, Hebrews makes it clear that the "day of rest" was a symbol and resting in Christ is the fulfillment of that symbol.



***Thus, you cannot say you disregard the traditions of men when you do in fact adhere to the traditions of men.***

A "tradition of men" would be to say that unless you worship on a certain day (or in a certain way) you will not be accepted by God.

[PetroniusMaximus]

Quix,

People should be rejoicing in the good news of this report (which I have also heard confirmed by many sources) but all they seem to want to do is fight.

Very sad - but it can't take away from the joy of hearing this news.

I recently learned from two different sources that 25,000 people A DAY are converting in China!!!

[PetroniusMaximus]

***those of us who are foolish enough to take the Scriptures seriously and to disagree with Mr. Rutz are simply beneath you, aren't we?***

What do you find unscriptural about Mr. Rutz's article?

[wideawake]

What do you find unscriptural about Mr. Rutz's article?

I find his previous book, Open Church, to be unScriptural.

[Quix]

YOU have stated very well and better than I

precisely my feelings and thoughts on it.

THANKS TONS.

I sadly expected that before I posted it. I hoped against hope that it would be different and if ever there was a doc worth a different attitude it should be such a doc. However, traditions and doctrines of men die hard. Thankfully, God has their final funeral well planned.

God's best to you and yours.

PRAISE THE LORD AND PASS THE AMMUNITION.

. . . though . . .

we wrestle not against flesh and blood . . .

[Quix]

PTL. Not at all surprised about China.

That would be more than 1,000 per hour! YEA GOD!

[Quix]

I'm somewhat curious which you spend more time talking to other people about

A) someone else's unScriptural whatever's

OR

B) the Love of Jesus and the Power of His Blood and Spirit?

[Quix]

END TIMES AND PRAYER PING LIST PING

I think this one is very encouraging.

I hope I haven't pinged you before on this one!

Doing weaving today and breaks of computing.

LUB,

[beaelysium]

In what sense, then, are they legitimately "Christian?"

In the same sense that the Rev. Gene Robinson, of the Episcopal Church, who is the first openly gay bishop and all those who support this are not Christians.

1 PETER 1:11 NKJ
11 . . . He testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ and the glories that would follow.
LUKE 24:44 NKJ
44 . . . all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me."
JOHN 5:39,46 NKJ
39 "You search the Scriptures, for in them you think you have eternal life; and these are they which testify of Me.
46 "For if you believed Moses, you would believe Me; for he wrote about Me.
MATTHEW 5:18 NKJ
18 "For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.
The Bible bears the seal of Jesus' authority. He quoted the Old Testament dozens of times and referred to it as the Word of God.
For example, in Matthew 22:32, Jesus quotes from Exodus 3:6 and 15.
MATTHEW 22:29,31-32 NKJ
29 Jesus answered and said to them, "You are mistaken, not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God.
31 "But concerning the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was spoken to you by God, saying,
32 `I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living."
PSALM 89:34 NKJ
34 My covenant I will not break, Nor alter the word that has gone out of My lips.
PSALM 119:89 NKJ
89 Forever, O Lord, Your word is settled in heaven.
HEBREWS 4:12 NKJ
12 For the word of God is living and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the division of soul and spirit, and of joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
2 TIMOTHY 3:16 NKJ
16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
The above phrase, given by inspiration of God , translates a single Greek word. Literally the word means God-breathed. The words divinely inspired have probably the nearest English equivalent meaning.
2 PETER 1:20-21 NIV
20 Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation.
21 For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.
2 PETER 1:21 NEB
21 For it was not through any human whim that men prophesied of old; men they were, but, impelled by the Holy Spirit, they spoke the words of God.
HEBREWS 1:1 NKJ
1 God, who at various times and in different ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets.
1 THESSALONIANS 2:13 NKJ
13 . . . when you received the word of God which you heard from us, you welcomed it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which also effectively works in you who believe.
The purpose of the Bible is to reveal God to mankind, and get us to come to God through Jesus Christ, so we can know Him.
JOHN 1:1,14 NKJ
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father . . . .
LUKE 24:27 NKJ
27 And beginning at Moses and all the Prophets, He expounded to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself.
JOHN 20:31 NKJ
31 but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.

Therefore anyone who does not believe that the bible is the word of God, can not be a Christian while not believing.

[Quix]

I hope your list is not longer than God's! LOL.

[PetroniusMaximus]

***I find his previous book, Open Church, to be unScriptural.***

I know very little of the Open Church movement. But I do kow that what he is reporting on in this article is happening. I have been reading articles and hearing first hand reports for several years.

It should be a source of great joy to you to hear that the Gospel spreading so rapidly, (even though you may disagree with the authors cell church views). It would seem that even though the "Christian" West is aposticizing, God is doing things in the Third World on a historic scale.

[Quix]

I thoroughly agree.

And, relative to another doc on another thread, if God removes His candlestick from our land for our outrages against Him and His priorities, He will undoubtedly put it in a 3rd world country as far as my best guess goes.

[Quix]

BTTT