[HarleyD]

I'm not exactly sure why I'm being ping to these posts. There are several reasons why I disagree with Rick Warren’s approach.

The Purpose Driven Life churches are unabashed in claiming they are trying to”re-invent” the church by focusing on evangelism rather than worship. This to me is contrary to what the church “worship” service has always stood for. These PDL churches, in effect, seek to destroy (yes destroy is the correct term) the very foundation and practices which the apostles set forth. To me this is a very dangerous thing and should be closely examined. Whether it is a Catholic, a Presbyterian, a Baptist or a Pentecostal bringing up this issue doesn't matter. The issue is really one about what church service (ANY CHURCH SERVICE) is about. One thing is clear-the church was NEVER meant for evangelism. We are to go out to the harvest. Not wait for the harvest to deliver themselves to us.

While I know some of our brethren would like to insist there is nothing wrong with bringing people into the churches, the motives and methods to evangelize is based upon deceit. These PDL churches are very forthright in claiming they are catering to unbelievers’ tastes so they can get them in the doors and witness to them. Deceitful messages and practices is not what Christianity is all about. I know I'll probably get a lot of hoo-ha over this one since I can already hear the remarks "no one is deceiving anyone". Sorry, I don't buy that a minute. The purpose is to get them in the doors to share the message. This is deceit as subtle as it may be.

Finally, Rick Warren, while claiming to be driving the next Reformation, focuses primarily on social causes. In his P.E.A.C.E initiative, only one of those issues focuses on “spiritual darkness”. The other four points are nothing more than social agenda items. He doesn’t seek to help the other Christians build from within and there is not concrete plans that I can tell.

There is no doubt that Rick Warren is leading the charge to redefine "church". However, he is going against 2,000 years of tradition set forth by the apostles themselves. I doubt if they would appreciate an upstart coming in with new ideas.

BTW for all our dearly beloved dispensationalists out there-With all the Rick Warren love fest that seems to be going on these days how do you know Rick Warren isn’t the Anti-Christ? ;O)

[Alex Murphy]

I'll probably get a lot of hoo-ha over this one

I hereby award you fifty extra years of eternal life, for using the phrase "hoo-ha" in a Religion Forum post. Bravo!

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Every word true, Harley.

One of the main reasons these mega-churches exist is because a single monolith is easier to control.

The communists knew that well enough.

[P-Marlowe]

BTW for all our dearly beloved dispensationalists out there-With all the Rick Warren love fest that seems to be going on these days how do you know Rick Warren isn’t the Anti-Christ? ;O)

Because all the dispensationalist Rick-Warren-bashers at places like Cephas Ministries and Bereancall and other sites where all this anti-Rick Warren literature is disseminated all seem to insist that the Pope is the Anti-Christ.

[Lord_Calvinus]

***I know I'll probably get a lot of hoo-ha over this one since I can already hear the remarks "no one is deceiving anyone". Sorry, I don't buy that a minute. The purpose is to get them in the doors to share the message. This is deceit as subtle as it may be.***

The ends justify the means.

***BTW for all our dearly beloved dispensationalists out there-With all the Rick Warren love fest that seems to be going on these days how do you know Rick Warren isn’t the Anti-Christ? ;O)***

Because they can't be deceived.

Good "hoo-ha," BTW.

[blue-duncan]

"The Purpose Driven Life churches are unabashed in claiming they are trying to”re-invent” the church by focusing on evangelism rather than worship"

That's not quite true Harley. The 40 Days of Purpose is unabashedly evangelistic but the rest of the PDC program is to make mature Christians who are doing the work of the ministry. The strategy involves a 5 step process;
1.to raise the level of commitment of the believer to the Great Commandment and the Great Commission in order to produce Great Christians
2.Help Christians develop spiritual habits in their daily lives by putting Christ: first in their time (developing a daily time with God in study and prayer); first in their money by giving to the Lord's work; and first in their commitments and relationships.
3. Providing a balanced Christian education program based on:
Knowledge; knowing the content of god's Word
Perspective; seeing things from god's point of view
Convictions; developing godly values,commitments and motivations
Skills; learning the "how to's of Christian living and ministry
Character; becoming like Christ in attitudes and actions

Every member and every attender must go through the beginner's "Essential Beliefs" Class. that class includes the following areas of study:
Doctrine. A general overview.
The Bible. The Bible is God's inerrant guidebook for life.
God. God is bigger and better and closer than you can
imagine.
Jesus. Jesus is God showing Himself to us.
Holy Spirit. God lives in us and through us now.
Creation. Nothing "just happened". God created it all.
Salvation. Grace is the only way to have a relationship with God.
Sanctification. Faith is the only way to grow as a believer.
Good and evil. God has allowed evil to provide a choice.
God can bring good even out of evil events.
God promises victory over evil to those to
those who choose Him.
The afterlife. Heaven and hell are real places.
Death is the beginning, not the end.
The church. The only world true "super power" is the
church.
The second coming. Jesus is coming again to judge this
world and to gather God's children.

We used the 40 Days program and then followed the plan for maturing Christians. Every member and friend went through a basics belief class, both in the small groups and in the Sunday School. For some it was a review and for some it was new and started them studying. All the classes are guided discussion classes with study guides and guided questions, a modified "diapraxis" method where each share what they have learned from their outside study and the small group leader leads and corrects any misunderstanding. It is not he Hegelian dialectic where there is a pooling of ignorance or the answer is the lowest common denominator.

In this setting in comparison to the older lecture method, application is immediate and feedback is a reality. People are learning and putting into practice what they have learned. they are not auditors or spectators as the older model fosters, but like Bereans, after the small groups they go home and restudy to ""see if it is so" and then come back to the small group and share what they learned and how they put it into practice.

All of these pejorative words and names being thrown around this discussion, diaprax, Delphi Technique, Hegel Jung, Blanchard, New Age are just epithets of fear and the security of the status quo. It is the oldest conceit of the enemy " "Did God really say...".

[Buggman]

These PDL churches, in effect, seek to destroy (yes destroy is the correct term) the very foundation and practices which the apostles set forth. To me this is a very dangerous thing and should be closely examined.

Okay, let's go with that. What exactly are those foundations that you think are being destroyed?