"If you believed that the Holy Spirit had guided the Magisterium effectively, you would accept Vatican II and the novus ordo. You don't, therefore, you cast guilt upon the Holy Spirit."
I have rarely seen so much BS posted on a single thread before!
Is it completely beyond your wit to understand that no matter how much grace and guidance God gives to His Church, his ministers are nevertheless completely free to resist and refuse that grace and guidance?
Do you really believe that when Alexander VI was installing his bastards in all the plumb sees with the largest benefices that this was a case of the Holy Spirit "guiding" the Church too???!!!
If you bothered to read the article you will see that most of these criticisms of Vatican II and the Novus Ordo are made by the very man who now sits in the See of Peter! How then can it be disobedience to agree with the Pope's own words?
It is you and your Pollyanna, "everything's rosy in the garden" ilk who are the dissenters and disobedient ones, because it is you who disagree with the Pope who sees the Church infected with filth, relativism, and banal fabricated liturgy!
We've got a new Pope - get with the programme!!!
Things that are "completely beyond wit" are matters of faith. If you have faith that the Holy Spirit guides the Magisterium in its implementation of the faith - ABOVE ALL - the holy sacrifice of the Mass - then you would not doubt the power of the Holy Spirit to guide Vatican II by His intent.
"What you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven".
The Holy See cannot act on matters of morals and faith outside the dictates of heaven. Every pope, from Peter ("You are Peter") on down is willed by God to be the vicar of Christ. Whether said pope acts individually in a non-Christian or villainous manner (regarding that which is not of morals and/or faith) you and I are still commanded to obedience and it is still the will of the Holy Spirit that said pope was elected in the first place.
Criticizing Vatican II because it was implemented improperly misses the point entirely. The Pope has not condemned the novus ordo, nor Vatican II, and he NEVER will. The liturgical LIBERTIES taken IN THE NAME OF VATICAN II are regrettable because they violate the intent of the Holy Spirit in Vatican II.
It is you and your Pollyanna, "everything's rosy in the garden" ilk who are the dissenters and disobedient ones, because it is you who disagree with the Pope who sees the Church infected with filth, relativism, and banal fabricated liturgy!
You couldn't be more off-base. You assign the Pope's condemnation of Vatican II and the novus ordo where he has NOT condemned it. Instead, you take the liberty of using his criticism of the liturgical ABUSES that came from the IMPRPOPER IMPLEMENTATION (read: user error) of Vatican II as a condemnation of Vatican II and the novus ordo themselves.
No matter how you cut it, your lack of faith is in the Magisterium, and in turn, the Holy Spirit.