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To: Rytwyng; ninenot; sittnick
Black Elk, the historical figure, was a lay Catholic missionary to the Lakota people from approximately World War I to his death in about 1945. Since he had the responsibility of catechizing others, he was, no doubt, better catechized than you.

You do not begin to understand the concept of Christendom much less to understand the Catholicism which you abandoned. That may well be the fault of whomever had the responsibility within Catholicism of catechizing you. Nonetheless, you abandoned the Faith (your right as God gave you free will to do wrong if you choose to do so and to pay consequences) when your own idiosyncratic views of Scripture did not mesh with your own idiosyncratic views of Catholicism. Your Irish ancestors would not be proud of your "drinking the soup." On behalf of clans Duggan and Whalen, you are hereby anathematized and stripped of Irish identity.

As to Spain, if they tried to resist under force of arms, they would have died on the spot. You also fail to comprehend Spanish history.

Catholics are not called to be politically correct. If the historical Black Elk had pondered Torquemada, he should have had no problem with him. The Lakota were not slaughtered by, ummmm, Catholics or by the Inquisition. Check the history. Sheridan was not directly engaged against the Lakota. One Catholic who was a genuine military hero in service to the Vatican (leaving the University of Dublin to enlist in the Vatican army against the Masons Garibaldi, mezzini and Cavour) and then to the US Army was the last U. S. soldier killed at Little Big Horn, Major Matt Keough. His body was not mutilated by the Cheyenne who killed him because Catholic Lakota warriors stopped them, pointing out the cameo representing the Order of St. Gregory which fell out of Keough's shirt as the Cheyenne was preparing to slam a hatchet through his ribs. You could look it up in Evan Connell's Son of the Morning Star.

Little known is the fact that, although the original Black Elk was a warrior at Little Big Horn, his career as pagan shaman was still ahead of him and his baptism as a Catholic was forty years in the future.

Still lesser known is the fact that many of the Lakota warriors were baptized Catholics by the Jesuit Fr. De Smet. It was more fashionable in, ummmm, "reformed" circles to regard the Lakota and other Plains Indians simply as pagan savages to be exterminated because they were inconvenient.

Assuming as I do that the original Black Elk understood the concept of Christendom which prevailed in Spain in Torquemada's time, he ought to have approved it. In those days, rejection of Catholicism was treason against the state and punished accordingly. Not a particularly American idea but Spain got along very well with it. In modern times, Franco undoubtedly grasped the concept as you do not. Spain has suffered much since his death.

Once again, we do not have to search for Scriptural orders on whether to breathe. Scripture is one of several sources of authority but the only one acceptable in Protestant circles. Therefore, it is the only one you consult. Therefore, in the absence of clear Scriptural command, you are subject to error in having to either stick your head in the sand or to rely on your unauthorized authority. Why does any properly catechized Catholic in communion with the Holy See care about the head games that you must play with yourselves in order to make a contrived system seem to work?

Unless and until you understand Catholicism, please do NOT set foot in the Catholic Church again. We have more than our quota of people who worship their own imaginings. We need people who comply with the Teaching Magisterium and submit to hierarchical authority. We do NOT need people who make believe that whatever they imagine Scripture to mean and whatever they CHOOSE to believe can be substituted for Catholicism within the Church. Stay right where you are.

BTW, Tomas de Torquemada, O.P., inquired and rendered judgments with his colleagues. The Spanish government of Ferdinand and Isabella imposed the punishments.

122 posted on 04/13/2005 3:21:26 PM PDT by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline of the Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Club)
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To: BlackElk
On behalf of clans Duggan and Whalen, you are hereby anathematized and stripped of Irish identity.

You have neither the authority nor the power to do that. Pog mo thon, agus teigh go hifreann! (Sorry, I don't know how to do sine fada in html)

Why does any properly catechized Catholic in communion with the Holy See care about the head games that you must play with yourselves in order to make a contrived system seem to work?

"Contrived system" !!!!!! You are the one who follows a faith that has to generate paragraph after paragraph, page after page, of circumlocutions to get around the fact that a lot of what they do, clearly violates the plain sense of scripture. Occam's razor suggest that "ye make void the word of God by your traditions".

Unless and until you understand Catholicism, please do NOT set foot in the Catholic Church again.

Fear not, I only go there for weddings and funerals.

Not too long ago I was actually musing about the possibility of returning to some sort of more liturgical form of worship (Catholic or Orthodox) and I wondered if I could ever get past the flat contradictions between Scripture and tradition that forced me out in the first place. But the Catholic attitudes I've encountered here at FR -- attitudes that I previously would not have believed could exist in the 21st century -- have convinced me that there's much MORE than just a problem of Bible interpretation. You, sir, are the best reason I know NOT to be Catholic.

Tomas de Torquemada, O.P., inquired and rendered judgments with his colleagues. The Spanish government of Ferdinand and Isabella imposed the punishments.

Yeah, and Judge Greer just rendered the judgements; he didn't actually pull Terri Schiavo's feeding tube. Nice try. Old Torq is still responsible for the deaths of many Jews and "heretics".

This thread is a waste of time. Say what you want from now on; you can even have the last word. I have better things to do.

132 posted on 04/14/2005 9:50:33 AM PDT by Rytwyng (we're here, we're Huguenots, get used to us...)
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