Posted on 04/05/2005 11:13:00 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator
While some Jewish leaders want the next pope to pity the Jews, what we need is a partner against secularism.
Bill Clinton was called the nation's first black president, in recognition of African-Americans’ sense that he unfailingly identified with their concerns. If Clinton deserved this tribute, then John Paul II could be called the first Jewish pope—at least the first since ancient times (when the very earliest church leaders were all Jews by birth). In John Paul II, Jews found a wellspring of anguished sympathy, and repentance, for the centuries of suffering of God's ancient servant, Israel, at the hands of Christians.
(Excerpt) Read more at beliefnet.com ...
The Pope the Jews Need
.....would be 'Lebanese'......?
You might like this.
Thanks!
Whoa, this guy wants a pope that will destroy the New Testament. Hardly. What we need is a pope that will recognise Jerusalem as Israel's capitol.
Ahh... an anti-pope.
Interesting article:
"Judaism is not about suffering. It is, in the final analysis, about spreading knowledge of the God of Israel to the world. This was the biblical patriarch Abraham's mission. It is the mission implicit in God's commandment to the Jews, through Moses, to serve the world as a "kingdom of priests" (Exodus 19:6), spiritual ministers at the service of all people."
He could also have added King David's exclamation to God "You have given me a Torah for ALL the nations.", and Isaiah's numerous prophecies about all peoples coming to worship God on Mount Zion. This original intended mission of the Jews was the whole point of them being chosen by God and Him calling Israel His "First-born son."
The first-born was the "goel" or kinsman-redeemer who was supposed to redeem his siblings from captivity and bondage in the event of their abduction or being taken in slavery. This is why the first-born received a double-portion of his father's estate. This is why the Pope referred to the Jews as our "Elder brothers" - their original mission was to free the rest of us from bondage and captivity to satan by restoring us to the covenant with Yahweh.
Unfortunately, then as now in Klinghoffer's words:
".. the job God gave us as moral leaders acting in the interest of humanity, a job that—frankly—we currently neglect."
It was the neglect of this God-given job (and Christians have been no better at many times) that necessitated God's direct intervention by coming and having to do it Himself.
What the pope should have done, these voices say, is repudiate aspects of the foundational layers of Christian tradition, including the New Testament itself,..
Whoa, this guy wants a pope that will destroy the New Testament. Hardly. What we need is a pope that will recognise Jerusalem as Israel's capitol.
You have misread the article. Mr. Klinghoffer is quoting with disapproval those Jews who want the next Pope to eviscerate the NT.
And unfortunately, the Catholic Church will never recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital, because they hold that they are the "true Israel" and that national Israel is an anachronism.
What the pope should have done, these voices say, is repudiate aspects of the foundational layers of Christian tradition, including the New Testament itself,..
Ahh... an anti-pope.
See my response to aimhigh, above.
I wonder if Mr. K even considered the possibility the ex-priest might be harshly judgemental of the Church he once took an oath to serve as a way of extinguishing the guilt which naturally occurs once one breaks their vows.
Have you ever heard an ex-wife or an ex-husband trash the one they had previously promised to love all of their life?
It is quite natural, sadly, that expriests attack the Church for her failings, real and imagined, because that justifies (in their mind)their abandoning their vows.
In fact, try and find an expriest cited who condemns their failures and not the Church. Someone else - the Catholic Church in this instance- is always to blame. Typical liberal guilt in action
And unfortunately, the Catholic Church will never recognize Jerusalem as Israel's capital...
Why should the Church recognize "bloodline theology"? It's anti-Christ. Israel is a state that accords rights and privilege according to one's DNA or who their mother was.
Skinheads also feel that they are God's chosen people by being born of a certain biological stock.
A "Jew" is someone whose mother is Jewish. One can be a wiccan and be a Jew yet if he converts to Christianity he's no longer a Jew. Another can lead his life in strict accordance to God's law in the Old Testament and not be one of "God's chosen people" because of how he was born.
Forget the Church, Christ Himself teaches us that this is wrong. Not only is it wrong by Christ, it doesn't resolve intellectually.
...and that national Israel is an anachronism.
It is.... prodigal son. The temple was destroyed 70 years after our Savior's death and Israel was shortly thereafter abandoned. The Jewish people were left scratching their heads wondering how they were going to get around defunct Mosaic animal sacrifice laws. He's not called "The Light of the World" for nothing you know.
Without the Christian ethos, there would be no modern Israel. The spirit of Christ (whether consciously realized or not) caused the West to show charity to the Jewish people after the horror committed on them via the Nazis.
While the Jews (in my meaningless opinion) should be left alone to cultivate Israel, they should not ever have full exclusive title to Jerusalem. There lies sacred real estate to be claimed by many.
You'll probably ascribe antisemitism to me as you often do, but that's OK.
The Jews don't need a pope.
"A "Jew" is someone whose mother is Jewish."
And also anyone who converts to Judaism.
You deliberately misinform the readers, as you don't have a clue what a Jew is or is not.
"You'll probably ascribe antisemitism to me as you often do"
Cela va sans dire, your whole post reeks of that.
"Sorry, once I saw the gentleman was quoting the hateful judgements about the Catholic Church by the former priest, Jim Carroll, I clicked out of the story."
IMHO the article is worth reading to the end as the author goes on to disagree with Carroll and says why he is wrong. He also criticises the Jewish voices who side with Carroll.
The article has a fresh approach which I have not seen taken from a Jewish p.o.v. before.
OK then how many of these converts are granted citizenship in Israel? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the sum total is somewhere around zero.
Cela va sans dire, your whole post reeks of that.
Not sure what "Cela va sans dire" means, but let me guess:
"When a reasoned response fails me I resort to slander".
Am I close?
"Not sure what "Cela va sans dire" means"
Use a dictionary, you know what "dictionary" means, don't you?
"Cela va sans dire" - "This goes without saying" -
It translates, "This goes without saying", which I disagree with. You are no more anti-Semitic than St. Peter was an anti-Semite.
You forced me to read the article. I was only responding to ZC's posts regarding the church's position on Jerusalem.
While the author's attempt at reaching out is commendable and decent (as was John Paul's), many of the points he makes are sophomoric or disingenuous. For example:
Judaism is not about suffering. It is, in the final analysis, about spreading knowledge of the God of Israel to the world.
That is by no means what Judaism is "about" and never was.
He does make some good points in that we can work together in a pragmatic way to do God's will. Sign me up. I'm all for finding common ground for doing good works.
You must be referring to converts in the Reform congregations, or non-recongised denominations such as Messianic Jews. Converts to Judaism are automatically granted full Israeli citizenship. This is one of the distinctive features of the Israeli state, and a complaint on the part of the Palestinians - someone in a foreign land, who undergoes a religious conversion, has a right to citizenship and property, which a person born there does not have.
However, the only form of conversion recognised is that of the Orthodox Jewish authorities. Reform and Conservative converts have to undergo an extra ritual - although that is presently under challenge.
About a year ago, a whole tribe of Indians in Peru were converted to Judaism. They were taken to live on a settlement in the West Bank, and given land. They are looked at by the Arabs with a very cynical eye.
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