***If you would, PM, please explain the contradiction you see between your two scripture quotes and Indulgences.***
As I see it, Indulgences and Purgatory pretty much go hand in hand. Neither are present in then New Testament.
"WHAT AN INDULGENCE IS
An indulgence is the extra-sacramental remission of the temporal punishment due, in God's justice, to sin that has been forgiven, which remission is granted by the Church in the exercise of the power of the keys, through the application of the superabundant merits of Christ and of the saints, and for some just and reasonable motive."
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/07783a.htm
That "temporal punishment" is (I believe) most commonly a reference to Purgatory. Pugatory is not in the New Testament . When believers die they go to be with the Lord.
(I will do my best to keep this discussion polite, respectful and, hopefully, edifying. Given the darkness of the last few days and all that has befallen poor Terri, I feel a great aversion to needless argument, as I am sure you do.)
Well, only for the case of people who are in purgatory. To give a scriptural example, Nathan told David that he had been forgiven by God, but that he would be punished by the death of his son. So clearly here we have two different types of punishments: eternal punishment (forgiven), and temporal punishment (to be exacted by his son's death). Do you agree that this also applies to NT believers, that they have to expiate their temporal debt for sin? In favor of this, I cite "Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of penance" (Luke 3:8).
http://www.newadvent.org/summa/408604.htmOn the contrary, It is related (2 Kgs. 12:13) that when David penitent had said to Nathan: "I have sinned against the Lord," Nathan said to him: "The Lord also hath taken away thy sin, thou shalt not die. Nevertheless . . . the child that is born to thee shall surely die," which was to punish him for the sin he had committed, as stated in the same place. Therefore a debt of some punishment remains after the guilt has been forgiven.
I answer that, As stated in I-II, 87, 4, in mortal sin there are two things, namely, a turning from the immutable Good, and an inordinate turning to mutable good. Accordingly, in so far as mortal sin turns away from the immutable Good, it induces a debt of eternal punishment, so that whosoever sins against the eternal Good should be punished eternally. Again, in so far as mortal sin turns inordinately to a mutable good, it gives rise to a debt of some punishment, because the disorder of guilt is not brought back to the order of justice, except by punishment: since it is just that he who has been too indulgent to his will, should suffer something against his will, for thus will equality be restored. Hence it is written (Apoc. 18:7): "As much as she hath glorified herself, and lived in delicacies, so much torment and sorrow give ye to her."
Since, however, the turning to mutable good is finite, sin does not, in this respect, induce a debt of eternal punishment. Wherefore, if man turns inordinately to a mutable good, without turning from God, as happens in venial sins, he incurs a debt, not of eternal but of temporal punishment. Consequently when guilt is pardoned through grace, the soul ceases to be turned away from God, through being united to God by grace: so that at the same time, the debt of punishment is taken away, albeit a debt of some temporal punishment may yet remain.
Pugatory is not in the New Testament . When believers die they go to be with the Lord.
Can we get some Scripture for that? Besides the thief, I mean: for expiated his sins anyway: "we receive the due reward of our deeds" (Lk 23:41).
I will do my best to keep this discussion polite, respectful and, hopefully, edifying. Given the darkness of the last few days and all that has befallen poor Terri, I feel a great aversion to needless argument, as I am sure you do.
Certainly.