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To: Ken Nielsen

The Crusades were not about forcing view X on person Y. They were, like any war, about killing people and breaking things. But neither forcing views or killing people is necessarily wrong. I don't think the Crusades were wrong, they were overall a just, defensive war.

It is clear that war crimes were committed by the crusaders in that context. Some were committed as a result of poor individual judgement and others as a result of poor leadership. The sack of Constantinople, for example, was a colossal failure of leadership.

Those crimes need to be seen in the legal context of the rules of war at the time. Reprisals against the civilians are a war crime today. I don't know if the rules of war permitted them in 1099. I don't know if the natural law also universally condemns the reprisals. Consider that if the cause of the war is just, then the besieged citizens ought to recognize that, overthrow or at least passively resist the combatants purportedly fighting on their side, and open the gates to the invading army. To put it differently, in a siege environment, where the weapon is hunger, it may be impossible under natural law to separate combatants from civilians; such separation may only we available if the mutually understood rules of war codify it.

Since none of us participated in person, what would the meaning of an apology be? I think that if a fault is found, the apology is very meaningful if it comes from the same entity that initiated the behavior at fault. That would, in this case, be the Church Militant represented by the Pope in Rome, the same thing in 11 century and today.


16 posted on 03/17/2005 10:52:23 AM PST by annalex
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To: annalex

Catholics are still waiting for apologies, too, then. People have to remember that the leaders of the jews and some jews, killed Jesus, that although it was a willing Sacrifice of Jesus, the people, instigated by jewish leaders didnt do it with that in mind. They just wanted to see Jesus dead. Then... they persecuted the Christians.. where is the apology for that?? Can only jews be offended? or muslims?

The muslim invasion of Spain was not a peaceful one, and they turned churches into mosques. During the crusades, the muslims killed, too, and they attacked, and they also desacrated churches by turning them into mosques, i.e. the Church of Agia Sophia (orthodox church). Today, Christians are killed in places where islam is the official religion or the religion of the majority of the people.

We should also, receive an apology from the anglicans, since the head of that church, henry viii, killed many Catholics, destroyed monasteries, stole Church property, etc, etc, etc, etc...

Why should we be the only ones distributing apologies that wont get anyone any where... they only make people get the wrong opinion. After the Pope asked for forgiveness for all the crimes Christians had committed against the jews, people began to say that the Pope had asked for forgiveness for all the crimes THE CHURCH had committed. (That's lunacy). Not even during the inquisition was the Church entitled to kill, nor can the Church do that.. the State did the burning and killing, etc, etc, because a crime against the Church, then, was also a crime against the state.

Protestants should also ask for forgiveness for all the lies they had said and invented against the Church, especially during the years of the protestant reformation.. dafaming or ruining the reputation of others goes against the commandments of God, and civil law.

These people who want to receive apologies should get a new hobby because they want to receive, but not give. That's not fair, just, or wise.

latinmass1983


18 posted on 03/17/2005 1:45:08 PM PST by latinmass1983 (Qualis vita, finis ita)
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